BE not-yet-success!

[fractacular]

Hey guys, I took some time to really try all the recommendations and practice before coming back asking for more help.

I still haven't made a squeak and have been conscientiously trying for between 30 minutes and 2-3 hours a day, distributed throughout the day (I'd say I have between 5 and 15 BE practice sessions day where I attempt to make squeaks, do roll-outs, etc). This is for 3 weeks.

I've also been spending a lot of time thinking about playing and trying different ways to produce sound, like just rolling my top lip in and changing the air stream angle (Jim Edgeton/Don Hodges story, p. 77). While I can play, and play kind of high, like this, it is by no means a BE technique, and I really want to start doing roll-ins and stuff.

My problem is still fundamental, I can't get any air to come out. I tried Michael's puff-out lips, step-by-step approach, and I can puff out my lip clamp and keep it puffed, or I can have a normal non-puffed lip clamp, either way no matter how hard or how soft I've pushed the air, it doesn't escape from my mouth. No hiss, no squeak, nothing.

I tried sticking the sharpened end of a pencil into my lips while they're in a clamp and I'm pushing air. This creates an artificial aperture and I can squeak like that (of course, air comes out on both sides of the pencil, so it's not training my lips to produce any useful aperture). It sounds great though, I get a squeak just like on the recording I have of a BE squeak.

And if I do the pencil trick for more than 5 seconds I black out and start falling over. So, believe me, it's not that I don't have enough air to make a squeak (you're talking to the guy that used to peel the skin off his inner cheeks playing way back when in high school marching band)

If you want any information, recordings, or pictures that will help in diagnosing me, please just say what you want. I truly believe in the premises of BE and can't wait for it to start working for me.

Also, if any chicago-area person is now willing to just have a look and see what I'm doing, please contact me.

Marc

[mcamilleri]

Hi Marc,

Thanks for coming on back. My first comment is that I think you are trying too hard. 2-3 hours in a single day is a long time to be trying.

You obviously now have a lip-clamp with a lot of air-pressure behind it, with or without air-pockets. This is great! Try to avoid blacking out - that is too much air-pressure! Man, when you get the lip squeak going, you are going to blow the roof off!

You commented that "either way no matter how hard or how soft I've pushed the air, it doesn't escape from my mouth. No hiss, no squeak, nothing."

You are squeezing your lips together too tightly. You need to relax the lip-to-lip squeeze so that air comes out. You might also need to allow the top or bottom lip or both lips to roll out slightly, while keeping the same basic lip shape and air pressure.

Basically, you are focusing too much on one variable, air pressure. You need a balance of sufficient air-pressure, roll-in, and lip-squeeze (of which you have too much).

The sensation I have when I do the air hiss or lip clamp is that the lips are only being squeezed together very, very gently. To give you an idea of how gentle this squeeze can be, when I lip squeak I can easily slide a business card in and out between my lips at any point, center or corners. From the sound of it you would need a winch to pull a business card out or your lips! Ease up on the lip squeeze, but maintain the lip shape and air-pressure.

The suggestions I gave you previously were the most extreme form of roll-in your can do, intended to defeat the flat-chin response to air-pressure that you used to have. Now that you have done that, I suggest you go back to the lip-squeak instructions in the book, especially the finger on lips thing. It is a matter of coordination now, not strength. Go for an air hiss now, and leave the squeak for later.

You are closer to success than you might think!

Michael

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[ This Message was edited by: mcamilleri on 2004-01-22 18:32 ]

[fractacular]

Ah, very helpful. I agree with your diagnosis, and will work on keeping rolled-in form and air pressure. I've played around for 15 minutes and I can tell I'm already a lot closer to a rolled-in hiss/squeak.

Thanks,
marc

[mcamilleri]

Hi Marc,

Well done! Don't place too much emphasis on the squeak at this stage - it is the air-hiss that is fundamental. Aim for the air-hiss first (and it doesn't matter where it comes from, at first), and once that is established, the squeak will be right around the corner.

My instructions for blowing air-pockets etc were intended as a very extreme exercise, and are merely a starting point. Lips can squeak in many positions, and you need to find what works for you.

Michael

[oj]

Marc,

Good advices from Michael. Perhaps if you "aim" at a C in staff instead of a G above staff, you will be able to relax enough to get a hiss?

Roll in lips and try to make the hiss with this pitch in mind. When you get it, try for a squeek with the same pitch, then go up to E, then G.

Ole

[Bruce Lee]

Hi, Marc!

Out of curiosity, when you are doing the lip clamp squeak, are your teeth clenched, or too close together? Where is your tongue?

I agree totally with Michael... the lip clamp/lip clamp squeak is not an Olympic event. Maybe for the DCI "Summer Games".... who knows?

Teaching BE to beginners is a much easier task. As adults, we have YEARS of muscle memory to erase. It takes a while to reshape muscles. First, the original muscle must break down, and at the same time, they need to be strengthened in the new muscle pattern.

Page 17, in the BE Book, contains what I feel is some of the most critically necessary information, with regard to making a "positive change".

Quite often the answers to our questions are in the book. If we encounter a roadblock, we need to go back to the book, in attempt to find the basic principle that we are missing. If we are still having difficulty, by all means, ask the questions.

I'm not dismissing the value of discussion of the topics, but sometimes, it's all to easy to fragmentize the problem. We need to look at how the whole rest of the system is affected by that problem. What we are trying to achieve is balance between the "parts"... which includes our equipment. I hope that this is helpful!

Best always,
Bruce


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[ This Message was edited by: Bruce Lee on 2004-01-23 06:23 ]

[_dcstep]

Wet your lips. Let the squeak come out where ever it wants in the beginning. Over time it will migrate toward the center.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[AverageJoe]

All helpful tips, but I would suggest making a trip to a teacher who can help you with BE stuff in person. Granted, I am not familiar with the method, but it is awfully hard to jump into embouchure things without one-on-one personal contact with someone who can see and hear what is going on.

Respectfully,

Paul Poovey

[_dcstep]

Paul, one of the unique points about the BE book/CD set is that it's designed for implementation without a teacher. In fact, Jeff told me when I took delivery of my BE that he discourages people (other than beginners to trumpet) from taking lessons from him. The book is complete, more so than any other method I've ever seen. All the issues addressed in this thread are addressed in the book. So, while your point may be applicable to most other methods, I don't think that it applies to BE for "experienced" players.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[fractacular]

I'm just a beginner, but maybe my perspective allows me to comment differently on BE pedagogy. I appreciate the completeness and spirit of the book (I almost want to capitalize it -- The Book!), and for many people I'm sure it works flawlessly. I read through it every day, looking for tips, refining my conceptual model of how BE works, and keeping my inspiration and spirits high. At the same time, after three weeks I couldn't (and still haven't) gotten a lip squeak. Notice I refuse to say "can't" -- I _know_ I can get a lip squeak, and I _will_ get a lip squeak, but I don't want it to take a month, two months, a year just to get the basic fundamental of BE.

If I'd had an hour lesson with a teacher after my second/third day trying BE (i.e. once I'd figured out my clamp and got it good enough to proceed), none of this would have happened. The teacher, any teacher, anybody with even some experience in BE who doesn't think of themselves as a teacher, would have caught my problems and helped me learn the feel of the clamp, the hiss/squeak. Given my particular somewhat-desperate situation of needing to improve quickly, I would have paid hundreds and hundreds of dollars for just an hour of informed instruction tailored to my needs.

Now, granted, I'm an underbiting, top-lip popping-outting, tongue-stuttering, tense-muscled, walking troubleshooting section, but I'm exactly the guy Jeff's writing this for. I'm exactly the guy that needs BE. I love music, I love horn, and I hate stressing over painfully producing notes when I could be immersing myself in making music.

Lessons can accelerate learning curves like you wouldn't believe (actually, I'm sure all of you believe), and for something as new and paradigm-changing as BE, an expert or someone with experience could mean the difference between progress in weeks and progress in years. I'm surprised someone as "pedagogically enlightened" as Jeff discouraged non-beginners from taking lessons, and I'm confused how everyone takes this attitude.

Btw, the lip-to-lip pressure thing is not addressed in the book, else I would have hit upon it in one of my readings (like I said, I've been practicing/trying to understand BE for hours a day, and this has involved reading pretty much the whole book every single day for 3 weeks).

Marc

[trumpetteacher1]

Marc,

I appreciate your efforts, but I invite you to look at your situation differently. I apologize if this sounds critical, but you've made several statements that are either imprecise, or contrary to the spirit in which the BE book was written.

You said, "but I don't want it to take a month, two months, a year just to get the basic fundamental of BE."

First, rolled-In notes are not "the basic fundamental of BE." They are A fundamental part of the process, but not THE fundamental. This distinction is important.

Second, how long you want progress to take has very little to do with how long it actually will take.

You said, "If I'd had an hour lesson with a teacher after my second/third day trying BE (i.e. once I'd figured out my clamp and got it good enough to proceed), none of this would have happened."

This statement, based on 30 years of teaching experience, is contrary to reality. I regularly have students who take more than a month or two to get any kind of sound whatsoever when doing the rolled in hiss. Sometimes it just takes time. The problem is, when writing the book, I was fully aware that more than half of all students can get rolled in pitches on the FIRST ATTEMPT. I had to split the instruction for those that could (right away) and those that couldn't. On some level, I think that knowing that some players get it immediately adds to the frustration for those students who take awhile to figure it out. But, if I'd said that "everybody will take a month or more," the students who do it immediately would say, "What's he talking about? This is easy!" So, there are fast and slow learners in this process, and that's just the way it is.

You said, "The teacher, any teacher, anybody with even some experience in BE who doesn't think of themselves as a teacher, would have caught my problems and helped me learn the feel of the clamp, the hiss/squeak."

Marc, I know you are trying to sound logical here, but what you are saying is pure fantasy. I shudder at the conflicting advice that you would receive in such a situation. For you to assume that someone who has figured it for themselves will then in turn know how to TEACH it, is a big stretch.

Do you know how many players there are in the world who I would recommend as a BE teacher? In other words, how many REALLY understand it, and who would stay away from watering it down by adding "other stuff" to it? Less than 5. It's a primary reason for the book, to keep the process from being distorted.

You said, "Given my particular somewhat-desperate situation of needing to improve quickly, I would have paid hundreds and hundreds of dollars for just an hour of informed instruction tailored to my needs."

No offense, but if you were desperate to improve quickly, you should never have taken on BE. NOTICE TO ALL READERS: IF YOU ARE IN NEED OF IMPROVEMENT BY A CERTAIN DEADLINE, DO NOT BUY THE BE BOOK. PLEASE!!!

As far as hundreds of dollars go, I would gladly have given you - and still will - a phone lesson or two for free. This idea that you will learn something faster by spending more money on it is contrary to my experience.

You said, "Lessons can accelerate learning curves like you wouldn't believe (actually, I'm sure all of you believe), and for something as new and paradigm-changing as BE, an expert or someone with experience could mean the difference between progress in weeks and progress in years."

Certainly, lessons CAN (the key word) accelerate learning curves, but it doesn't mean that they WILL. Marc, you know how many kids I run across EVERY DAY that are totally screwed up PRIMARILY because of their lesson teacher? I invite you to wake up to reality. The majority of players are screwed up because the lesson teacher brings in their own screwed up bias and dumps it on the student. "Tighten those corners!" "Keep those teeth apart!" "Blow faster air!" "Don't think about your lips!" And on and on and on.

You said, "I'm surprised someone as "pedagogically enlightened" as Jeff discouraged non-beginners from taking lessons, and I'm confused how everyone takes this attitude."

Let's be clear here. I discourage players who have just bought the book from taking lessons. The basic information is in the book, and all I would be doing is echoing it. The new BE players need to experience the exercises, and see if they can work them out on their own. Progress comes in stages. Taking lessons from me will be no guarantee that progress will be any faster. I know this from experience. Been there, done that.

You said, "Btw, the lip-to-lip pressure thing is not addressed in the book"

Not specifically using those terms, no. I only addressed the main issues in the way that I perceived to be least complex. "Lip to lip pressure" will not be making it into the book anytime soon.

I understand if you are irritated with me, as I process information WAY different than you do (or think you do.) But because I want to see you have success, I am forced to address the issues which seem (to me) to be causing the biggest blocks to your progress. Changing your thinking - especially when you don't think that you need to - is normally the biggest challenge any student faces.

Sincerely,

Jeff Smiley

[HJ]

Hi Marc,

Read and reread what Jeff says here. The success you will have with BE is not in how much (2-3 hours, don't you have something else to do?) time you spend, how much money you spend or what a teacher says (although I think that with somebody who understands the underlying principles, you can get some confidence and reassurance that what you do is right), but simply the fact that you DO it, and do it exactly as in the book. You have to be very harsh on yourself otherwise you'll deceive yourself and waste your time.
So, the lip squeek is a problem. Well, solve it. That is your exercise, that is what you need to learn at this moment. That is your main BE goal. After some attempts, stop and play some nice music!!! Retry the next day.
It took me over two weeks to do the lip squeek. I have been playing the trumpet for almost thirty years and it took me two weeks, my brother who plays the guitar (of all instruments) could do it in a second!!! I tried it several times a day, but just short attempts. eventually it worked. But all the attempts that failed were also worthwhile, because it changed my attitude towards the chop setting.

The way I learned it was that I did not blow from the abdomen first. I just squeezed some air through my lips that was in my cheeks and pockets between my lips and teeth. For me it works best on dry lips. (I do all the other exercises on wet lips, but this one). In the book it says clearly that you have to blow the way you blow your horn. It took me a while to make the transition from 'cheek air' to 'lung air', but when I could blow normally, I was there. After that it took me two months to produce a feeble tone with this setting etc. etc. etc., but all the time I was reteaching my lips by just DOING it.

Jeff, I read your post on this topic and it says it all. It is as much about mindset as it is about doing the exercises. There is one thing, though, that I have a different experience with. I think the book is the most comprehensive book I've ever read about this topic, so for me everything just fell in place. I trusted you (or the book, or both) enough to make the jump. With my students I experience a lot of fear, and IMO a teacher can reduce this fear. A teacher can give you the confidence that the things you do are the right things. For most trumpeters this looks like dangerous stuff, really. And I feel a lot of uncertainty about whether the exercises are performed well or not. If I say that it is OK that the roll-in sounds crappy, as long as their chops are rolled in and things will get better then people get confidence in the process. If I feel this kind of thing I often play a roll-in for them and it sounds even crappier than their own, haha. But if I tell them that I made progress beyond expectation they start believing me. That is IMO what a teacher can do, so I think it is not for everybody that they can figure it out themselves. There is one other thing of course and that is language. For the people who do not know, I'm from Holland. Sometimes I feel more like a translator than a teacher, really. The book is clear enough, I just have to make a quick translation for a student. Most people in Holland are relatively good in reading English, but the trumpet language is not so familiar: chops, aperture, compression, bunch etc.

I agree that before taking lessons in BE that you should at least have read the book and tried the basic exercises. In Holland it is different language-wise. Sometimes I have to explain and translate the basic idea first and then let them find it out for a while. For children it is easy: I just tell them what to do and explain nothing, haha.

Bert

[trUMBet67]

i agree with all posters before this, specially Jeff's one. I'm surely the less qualified here, but someone of your problems was mine, so...
1) Roll-in is ONE piece of the puzzle. Example: My trick with the pencil is only MY trick to focalize my attention in one point instead of over-analyze lips, breath etc.. I have a scientific mind and sometimes i must stop to think too much.
And, i think, you too.
2) Also, BE is ONE part of dayling practise. The goal is music, i often need to remember this. Think at music. Listening to the sound is a great way to correct many problems and relaxes our mind... if the approach of emphasize one part of the puzzle don't works, you could emphasize another one, or none. Finally, i think that more than 1 hour of BE are too much... for me... (opinions?)
3) Relax. Have one or two days off. When, after, you'll begin to play ( a song you love! ), you will feel relaxed and something will be changed, i'm sure!

Umberto

[histrumpet]

Hi Marc,

It seems that you have run afoul here. Let me say that I feel your pain, you are not the first or the only one. I read Jeff's reply and it seems he roughed you up a little, you are not the first or the only one. I sincerely hope that BE works for you.

Now Jeff, in your reply to Marc you wrote,

The problem is, when writing the book, I was fully aware that more than half of all students can get rolled in pitches on the FIRST ATTEMPT. I had to split the instruction for those that could (right away) and those that couldn't. On some level, I think that knowing that some players get it immediately adds to the frustration for those students who take awhile to figure it out. But, if I'd said that "everybody will take a month or more," the students who do it immediately would say, "What's he talking about? This is easy!" So, there are fast and slow learners in this process, and that's just the way it is.

If this is what you thought you should have written it.

Do you know how many players there are in the world who I would recommend as a BE teacher? In other words, how many REALLY understand it, and who would stay away from watering it down by adding "other stuff" to it? Less than 5. It's a primary reason for the book, to keep the process from being distorted.

This statement seems contrary to what you have posted in other threads. By adding "other stuff" to it, students may be able to figure it out but when a teacher does it, you call it water down. I must have misunderstood the book when very general guidelines are given and then the writer states that the student will figure things out from there.

The list of players is growing who have suffered major setbacks using this material, I hear from them often. You don't because if they posted here they would be labeled as a trouble maker. After 3 years BE did not work for me, there will be others.

Bruce Donnelly

[ This Message was edited by: histrumpet on 2004-01-24 15:12 ]

[oj]

Bruce, did you really work on B.E. for 3 years?

It was published in 2001 - now is early 2004. Did you really get the book in January 2001?

If you, after 2 years, felt you did not get anything from it, why did you continue one more year?

Could you try to explain how you practiced the exercises in B.E. Bruce, I'm really surprised at what you say here, but I honestly want to know your story!

Of course there will be people who get nothing from B.E. Maybe they don't have the right attitude and patience. Maybe some even live under an illusion that you can "buy" playing skills, and that it should be "instant". When it turned out not to be "instant" they ditche it.

People with this attitude should read Herbert Clarke's autobiography. Clarke bought all the books he could and different mouthpieces etc., etc. - but in the end he realised the he had to be his own best teacher and that hard work and dilligent practice was the only thing that helped....

Here is a little quote:
Many beginners, even after purchasing an instrument and instruction book, when working on the theory of the author and finding they are not making the advancement expected, become so discouraged that after playing a year or so they give it all up. Some players have a protruding upper jaw, others an undershot lower jaw; some have thick lips, others thin lips, and yet the "Book" gives only one explanation of how to play. Now I do not mean to find fault with different methods, as all of them are good in many ways. I simply wish to point out that each individual player must reason a little with himself, and not take the text too literally. Remember, we are not all born alike and fashioned from the some mold!

More here:
http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/clarke/bio/html/ch11.html#c11s1

Ole

[Jerry Freedman]

No method works for everybody. All methods have failures. If you go through TH posts you will find many, many posts that say:

"I was a diligent student of { insert teacher or method name here}. After many yeers of failure I got nowhere. Then I discovered { insert other teacher or method name here } and it changed my life."

Rich Willey is dedicated to Reinhardt because Jacoby failed him. Kyle ( on the Callet forum) swears by Callet because Reinhardt failed him. It is rumored that John Faddis got exactly nothing from Caruso. As for BE, its a lot better written and explained than any of Callets books.

I am reminded of the days when I was an employed engineer. I attended a number of IETF meetings. The IETF is where Internet standards are developed. They used to have contests for who could produce the most creative misinterpretation of standards. No matter how well written BE maybe ( I think its the best out there) There are people who will not have success with it.

[fractacular]

histrumpet writes:

"It seems that you have run afoul here. Let me say that I feel your pain, you are not the first or the only one. I read Jeff's reply and it seems he roughed you up a little"

I don't think I've run afoul, nor am I feeling pain, nor do I feel roughed up by Jeff. It'd take pretty thin skin and a whole bucketful of misinterpretation to think that any of the posts here are personal attacks or even negative criticism. I mostly agree with what Jeff said, and don't think the form his message took was inappropriate.

True, I don't get out much, but I've never heard of anyone claiming to have been setback by BE. Please don't assign me erroneously to this group. Indeed, although I still have yet to produce some of the basics of BE, the constant introspection, careful analysis of my embouchure, and incorporation of the psychological tenets espoused in the book have -- without a single Roll-in #1 -- changed the way I play already. I've played notes lower than I ever thought possible and also played high notes I haven't hit for a long time. And, while for some free buzzing is useless or even damaging, it's always been a helpful exercise for me and I can freebuzz up to a high C now, sometimes higher. I'm pretty confident that I will get a handle on BE and that when I do, I'll be on the list of people whose lives it's changed.

I don't really think I need to respond to what Jeff or anyone else wrote, I found most of the posts informative and worth considering. I'm not as entrenched in my way of thought as it may initially seem, and I'm starting to understand better the psychology underlying BE. Whether or not my mental adjustments have made the difference, I think I've been getting good hisses and the occasional squeak.

Here's a question: What I consider a good-feeling squeak is one that emerges and feels very non-horizontal. That is, I could squeak (using cheek air) in a various number of "non-BE" ways before, but it felt like the squeak was spread all over my lip and was really airy and not thick in tone. Every now and then when I try the clamp/blow air, a somewhat louder squeak emerges REALLY centered, REALLY small hole. It feels really focused, basically every adjective I would think should be applied to the feeling of a squeak. Any comments?

Marc

[histrumpet]

Well OJ at the risk of drawing the ire of others here is how it went.......

It is has very close to 3 years ago when I bought the BE book. I read the book several times including the trouble shooting section and worked on the exercises at length. Now after 3 years I have finally started breaking the bad habits that came with my BE experience. Yes, as Jeff and others have stated, you can get free advice by email and telephone. Several of the emails where in the catagory of " That's sounds interesting, let me know how things develop". Things did not develop so Jeff gave his telephone number so we could get to the bottom of what was going on. The short version was... "Your lips are confused. You need to check out the Caruso forum, that should help you get your chops together then try BE". He also went on to say that most of his students could already play a G above the staff before they started the BE method.

Not many will come out and post the failures because they will get the reputation for being a trouble maker. Just as other methods in Jeff's book are refered to as numbers games I think that this one could also be, only after a larger number of books are sold will the truth be known. Like I said, the numbers are growing daily, nobody else has gotten the balls to say anything yet.

Bruce Donnelly

[Larrios]

Bruce,

Ole asked you some sincere questions about your development and how you approached the method in your practise routine. I think you haven't asnwered his questions properly. I'm also interested in your story, but as long as there is no story, it's hard to say much about it. Is it really the method that didn't work, or could it be your approach?

I'm normally not going to comment on this kind of messages, and by no means I want to be rude, but I think it takes more 'balls' to admit that you might not be fully understanding the method yet or that you have to alter your thinking concerning your own development, than to just claim it won't work for you. That it hasn't so far doesn't mean it can't, even after three years. BE handed you universal principles. I would say you are part of the universe as well, right? I have posted on this forum as well that none of the excersises gave me great results at once. That's also not very interesting. BE first changed my way of thinking quite drastically, before I was able to handle it well. Some will simply need more time for their development than others, because you might need to develop in other areas than just trumpet in order to succeed with this method. The answers are still there all the same, but we have to realise that sometimes, the answers we seek are already within ourselves. It's just harder to look inside than to look just at the surface. BE is about cause and effect. I am convinced that there is no 'outside' cause that keeps you from having good results. If you stick with it and make sure you won't overdo it, so that it doesn't negatively influence your normal playing, I believe you will eventually figure it out as well. But, that really takes 'balls'.

By the way, if you would think that I am affraid to be a troublemaker, that's not true. I drove more than one conservatory teacher insane with my arguments to not follow their suggestions. I won't go into a lot of detail here and I'm aware that I do have to learn a lot myself, but you can trust me to be the kind of person that's VERY critical towards anything. (That includes myself.)

Ko

[trumpetteacher1]

Bruce,

Your posts have crossed the line. I previously said that I wouldn't comment on your psychology. I no longer feel compelled to abide by that statement.

You've obviously decided to make it your life's work to warn others about the dangers of BE. What you don't seem to realize is how mentally unstable your behavior appears to others. Even the guys here who don't know you, and want to help you, are starting to figure it out

You attempted to recruit Marc into you little negativity club ("I feel your pain") but you were told by Marc, in no uncertain terms, that he didn't want to play your blame game. Very few people will, Bruce, as most players would rather focus on success rather than writhe in failure.

And blame is the core issue here. You feel a compelling need to blame somebody or something for your failures in life. To that end, you have distorted and exaggerated and spun your "story" to a ridiculous degree.

I catagorically deny virtually eveything that you have alleged to this point. Oh sure, there were some facts thrown in there. But your spin, which is starting to be obvious to those who don't even know the facts, is an attempt by you to compartmentalize taking responsibility for your own actions. The reality is, and mutual friends that we have agree with this 100%, is that you are you own worst enemy.

You have left out so much stuff - about how totally screwed up you chops were prior to BE, due in part that you have never been even an average trumpet player, and due to your dabbling in another trumpet method which will remain nameless. Please remember Bruce, I have a hard copies of your first emails to me. You were praying to God that BE would be your salvation!

This will be my last post to you. Your innuendo that there are growing numbers of disgruntled BE users who lack the "balls" to say so, is a product of the hate in your mind. Not only that, you are calling the members of your own club cowards.

Bruce, the trumpet world is very small. Someday we will meet face to face, and we will find out what kind of courage that you really have. In the meantime, if you must, please spread your negativity somewhere else, and stay off this forum.

Jeff Smiley