Jazz Improvisation - is there more to it?

[Trumpetstud]

Is there more to jazz improvisation than just playing what comes to your mind? So, I'm learning jazz and improvisation and that is basically what I'm doing, just playing what comes to my mind (I'm a beginner jazz student) in the same key as the Head. At some point will it be more? My teacher says listen, listen, listen and it will just get in there. I'm sure he hasn't told me everything yet. We talked about the great trumpet players actually speaking to the audience with the improvisation. My teacher said that was an advanced technique. What else can I look forward to learning?

[Jaw04]

What you are describing is definitely IMPROVISATION. But when you add the word "Jazz" you are implying a cultural tradition. To be able to improvise in that tradition you need to familiarize yourself with the important recordings, styles, repertoire, history, and artists of Jazz music.

[TrumpetMD]

Before you can "speak the language", you have to "learn the language". That means learning scales and patterns, studying jazz style, and learning the literature.

Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
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Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.

[Trumpetstud]

I appreciate the comments. Dumb question - How do you study jazz style? Books, listening or both?

[weeeeve]

This is a reeeeeally broad question/topic... and I'm sure there are many who can chime in with wonderful advice. If I may impart my own perspective here:

I think maybe the primary skill to acquire is the ability to hear something in your head and immediately express that through the horn.
For me, playing lots of scales, scale patterns, chord patterns through all the keys greatly boosted my ability to do so.

And then, as has already been said- listen, listen, listen, to internalize the jazz vocabulary, from which you can then begin to create your own.

Best wishes on your musical journey!

Steven
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Steven Laurent

Bach Strad Model 72
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[Trumpetstud]

I'm listening to jazz ALL the time! I was doing some free improv and all of a sudden a few measures of a song just popped out! It freaked me out. It was so cool. Listen, listen, listen. I don't even know what the song was but I know it was part of a tune I had heard. Jazz is AWESOME!!!

[kehaulani]

One could write reams on your question. Jazz is an AURAL art, so the listening suggestions are right on.

But if you want to pull the curtain back a little as to what to do and where you are going, read the small primers Improvising Jazz and How to Practice Jazz both by Jerry Coker and get Vol. I How to Play Jazz and Improvise and read very carefully all the print material.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325782811934?

Support your local musicians by attending their gigs and jam sessions..
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Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Riojazz]

It is a substantial topic, but I'll just comment on your last post.

What you describe is to quote a musical phrase from a well-known tune in your solo. If you can make it fit in the chord progression, just play enough of the phrase that other musicians can recognize it, get off it, and don't do it again that night, you'll get a nod from those in the know.
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[gwood66]

I have my thoughts but like other said it is a lot to put into a single post. Here are a few good videos to sort things out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b74yE-2t-JM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCvVjWr9uJU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEdtUOGCCnU&t=901s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-XUJID1wM8
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[Halflip]

I am re-posting a reply I made on one or two other threads about how to improvise. Maybe you will find this helpful (it helped free me from trying to think in terms of the right scale for every chord -- the music goes by too fast for me to do that without 'locking up'):

A long time ago when I took some night classes in jazz theory and performance at the Wisconsin Conservatory of Music, I was taught one principle that made improvising on popular songs and standards much easier.

Most standards have chord progressions which can be roughly translated into a series of cadences (ii-V7-I chord progressions) in different keys. (Since these are cadences in keys other than that of the actual song, they are sometimes referred to as 'false cadences'.) Once you do this for a given song, and you have developed patterns or "licks" that you can play over cadences in all keys, it becomes much more natural to construct a meaningful improvised solo. (Why? Because this approach allows you to think in terms of longer, more natural phrases that fit over pre-analyzed, familiar groups of chords, rather than trying to choose which scale you need to use for each individual chord while simultaneously anticipating the right notes on which to pivot between every pair of adjacent chords.)

This is why certain of the Jamie Aebersold practice recordings focus on the ii-V7-I progression in all keys. Of course, you have to account for minor key cadences, and some compositions will not fit the cadence pattern readily (e.g., Giant Steps), but most do. As you become more fluent in playing interesting patterns (based on appropriate scales and arpeggios) over cadences, you can work on enhancing the pure tunefulness and creativity of your solos.

At one time I had a girlfriend who was a professional violinist with a symphony orchestra. I played some jazz recordings for her, and after she listened to a couple of improvised solos, she said, "It's just a bunch of false cadences!"

(An amusing side note: I used to design databases using relational analysis. After I demonstrated this approach to some colleagues, one of them said, "It's just a bunch of redundant keys*." Long story short -- everything I've invested my life in is 'just a bunch of something'! )

*NOTE: keys here refers to digital data keys, not musical keys.
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[Halflip]

[tyler.slamkowski]

www.jazzadvice.com

www.learnjazzstandards.com

[kehaulani]

Halflip - edited. Thanks.
(Irritating, wasn't it?)
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

YTR-8310Z II Bobby Shew
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[mograph]

Allow the implicit to come out without thinking. It walks hand in hand with the explicit study.

I've always been able to improvise, but only after studying chords, scales, and phrases, am I starting to improvise well. (or better) With more practice, I'm starting to match notes without thinking: my fingers just go to the right note. Yes, that's ear training, but it's what I mean by the implicit.
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Playing for fun since 1979.
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Into that jazz devil music

[MrOlds]

Jazz is a family of languages. There are different eras, styles, cultures. It’s a big melting pot. Jazz in any particular idiom has its own rules, slang, inside jokes, etc.

Learn to improvise in one or more jazz idioms like you learned to speak. First imitate things you hear until you can exchange and understand ideas with others. Internalize the nuances of your favorite idioms. The licks, slang, referential quotes, inside jokes etc. You did this with spoken language before you went to school.

Then learn to spell and diagram sentences (scales, theory - the stuff you get in schools). Don’t get stuck there.

Then listen and absorb everything you can get your ears around to turn yourself into an artist. The difference between the way you communicated when you were 7 and the way you communicate as an adult is the sophistication of your ideas, not your ability to diagram sentences.

You want to be a communicator not a speller. Unless you really like spelling

[Jeff_Purtle]

Link

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Trumpet Lessons Online since 2004, teaching since 1983
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[Jeff_Purtle]

Link

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Jeff Purtle
Trumpet Lessons Online since 2004, teaching since 1983
MultiTouch book on Claude Gordon
+1 864-354-3223 iPhone w/ FaceTime
Skype: jeff_purtle

[peanuts56]

I was blessed with good ears, and it came easy to me as a kid. However, studying scales and chord patterns took it up a notch later on as an adult.I never studied formally with anyone for improv. I wanted to study with Jeff Stout when I was at Berklee but there were no time slots available on his schedule. The Jamey Aebersold materials are a really good place to start. Improv is not just limited to jazz. It's part of several different styles from rock to country. Bach was known to improvise often. One of my top 5 favorite improv solos is Elliot Randall's guitar solo on Reeling In The Years. The rumor is that solo was a first take. Listen to other styles as well.

[spitvalve]

As a kid I practiced next to the AM radio and tried to play along with every song. It helped my ear training immensely, but I was clueless about anything other than blues scales until I studied with Bart Marantz, who turned me on to Jamey Aebersold's play-along library. That gave me a foundation for my personal practice, but the real growth just came from playing in bands with guys who were better than me, along with listening, listening, listening to jazz and writing and practicing transcriptions. I'm still a hack but I love it and will keep trying to get better until the day I croak.
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Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
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[TrumpetMD]