Holton Super Collegiate vs. Olds Studio

[Brassman19]

Hi. I have a question that hopefully somebody out there has experience with, and can answer it for me. I somewhat recently bought (again, as I foolishly traded off my first horn I owned) a 1954-ish Holton Super Collegiate trumpet (SN 264XXX) in pretty good condition, the version made with a yellow brass bell and a nickel silver bell flare (before the red brass with nickel flare version), similar to the Olds Studio model horn of that same era.

My question is, has anyone here on TH happened to have owned both of these horns at the same time, and, if so, have you tried playing them side-by-side, to see how they compare in how they play, sound, feel, etc? Did you find that the Super Collegiate felt, responded, and even sounded similar to the Olds Studio? If not, what observations and differences did you notice between the two?

This version of Super Collegiate, in addition to its yellow brass bell and nickel silver bell flare, has a nickel silver lead pipe, but a yellow brass tuning slide (as opposed to the Olds Studio, which has the n.s. tuning slide, but a yellow brass lead pipe), but it does not have n.s. valve balusters, which the Studio has. From everything I've read, the S.C. has a bore size of either 0.458", or 0.459", so it is virtually identical with that of the Studio (listed as being 0.460").

I am so pleased to be able to acquire this version of Super Collegiate trumpet again, because, for me at least, it has a very easy, and responsive blow, and an open feel to it, plus its sound has a "zing" and lively energy to it unlike any other horn I have owned and played to date. I really enjoy playing it, but wonder if I might enjoy owning/playing a Studio even more, or are they pretty similar, and much the same in how they play?
_________________
Dillon rose brass bell Flugelhorn (Yamaha YFH-631 clone)
Mark Curry 1.25 FL flugelhorn mp
1961 pro Holton Galaxy Trumpet
Bach 1C mp (Trumpet)

[Manuel de los Campos]

I once bought an Olds Studio and was glad to sell it again. To me a very overrated model, it did certainly not outplay the Olds Super from the same era nor did it out-sound it: Compared to the Super I found the Studio flat sounding, one dimentional.
The Studio is a looker, for shure but not worth to stay awake for.
_________________
Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs)

[OldSchoolEuph]

OK, I have most and am familiar with all involved (I don't say "both" because each of the models mentioned, including the Super, had multiple, significantly different, iterations.

The SuperCollegiate began in 1950 as a step-up to the bottom-sprung Collegiate 507 called the 607 Special Deluxe. Basically the same horn, but built to higher standards of materials including to-sprung valves, a throw on third, and the brass bell stem with nickel flare. These were decent responding, excellent projecting, and (by today's standards certainly) very well built horns.

1955-1957, the Special Deluxe was renamed 608 SuperCollegiate, but remained otherwise the same. 1958-1965, the bell stem was changed to red brass along with other minor tweaks, and the horn lost some of its brightness and ability to project with ease - though the model number and name went unchanged.

While the original 1948-1965 Olds Studio may have looked similar to the later SuperCollegiate, there was little in common. The Studio was a top line professional horn that offered fantastic response, and the ability to color tone with ease. It projected as well as anything available by that time. It was, as Olds named it, a studio horn.

In 1965, Olds went on a cost cutting kick and destroyed the Studio. It transitioned to a low-quality build, in all yellow brass, and all of the playing characteristics changed. From one catalog to another, Olds marketing could not even make of their mind if it was the most, or least, open horn they sold. Essentially, it became an overpriced toy.

If these were hammers, the Special Deluxe and SuperCollegiate would be Stanley and Irwin respectively (good quality, ueable tools), while the original Studio would be an Estwing (like Vaughn, a premium tool for serious users) and the later Studio something more like a Workpro (Amazon brand - still not Amazon basics or Yiyitool, but...)

The Super offered in comparison is likewise a moving target. The Super evolved quire a bit over the years from the first light and responsive, yet very warm Supers, to the famous silver plated Supers of the WWII period that light up like nothing else, to the much heavier, much more all-around Supers that followed in the 50s and 60s. Eventually there was a Super with an UltraSonic bell, that was yet another drastic shift - and also with a different UltrSonic explosion-formed bell, the SuperStar which is often mistaken for a Super derivative, but is a completely different commercial horn.

So your question is hard to answer when the objects are not particularly well defined.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[Manuel de los Campos]

[OldSchoolEuph]

[Manuel de los Campos]

[Brassman19]

Thanks, Ron, for all the information. I appreciate your knowledge and expertise greatly.

I suspected that appearance of similarity does not mean the two horns are, or play and sound the same. Still, my Super Collegiate plays and responds very well for me, and it is a fun horn to play.

As you said, its materials and build quality are very good, and it is a satisfying horn to hold (it has a very solid feel to it, plus its styling is sleek, and attractive to look at). Its valves and slides move and operate very smoothly and easily, and its bell is responsive, with its nickel silver flare being very resonant, and gives me good feedback behind the bell. It is good to get your confirmation that it is a good horn, and I honestly could be content playing just it, along with my 1960 Olds Special trumpet when I want a horn with a bit darker, warmer sound to it.

That being said, I believe that somewhere down the line I probably will plan on getting myself a 1950's/early 60's Studio trumpet, so I can enjoy its refinement, and higher level of response and performance capabilities.

Larry
_________________
Dillon rose brass bell Flugelhorn (Yamaha YFH-631 clone)
Mark Curry 1.25 FL flugelhorn mp
1961 pro Holton Galaxy Trumpet
Bach 1C mp (Trumpet)