Anyone play/ed a medium-bore horn?

[kehaulani]

I am not playing in any large ensembles presently, so I cannot answer this by just a test-play. Any input would be appreciated.

How adaptable to playing in wind ensemble and jazz big band is a medium-bore trumpet? Does it have enough carrying power and tonal quality to hold its own in a section? Even if it does, would you have to work harder?
Thanks.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

YTR-8310Z II Bobby Shew
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Subtropical and Subpar]

Honestly? My medium-bore Kanstul 991, their take on the Connstellation, is louder, with less effort, than my Bach Strad 25 reversed leadpipe. Absolutely no trouble whatsoever with carrying power. On the contrary, I work less hard with the 991 than the Bach. It's an incredibly efficient horn.

As for blend, if I use a B cup mouthpiece (in Bachspeak) it can hide in a section of Bachs or Yamahas nicely. Note, though, that the Kanstul version of the Connstellation is NOT nickel-plated so its timbre is a bit brighter than a 38B or 36B.
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1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel

[Jaw04]

[kehaulani]

O.K., then, specifically my King Golden Flair which, I would assume, it would be hard to find anyone who's played one.

spoiler - Golden not Silver Flare. Names almost the same but I understand that these are not similar horns.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

YTR-8310Z II Bobby Shew
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Halflip]

Actually, I don't think the KMI mid-70's Golden Flair had all that small a bore size. Although the custom horn(s) made for the Candoli brothers had a bore size of 0.453" (if I recall correctly), the bore size on the version KMI sold to the public was more like 0.458" according to their published specs.

I measured the 2nd valve slide inner diameter on mine with digital calipers, and I got something like 0.456".

As for carrying power and tonal quality, read what trumpet56 says near the bottom of this thread:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79799&

To be fair, other posts and threads about the Golden Flair have mixed opinions about where it shines; some say it plays tighter than a Silver Flair and is better in small ensembles, while others say it can "peel paint". I think it all depends on how the player approaches a slightly smaller bore lightweight horn. (I didn't see many posts claiming it made the player "work harder" however.)
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"

[kehaulani]

Thank you very much.
Anybody want any used horns?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

YTR-8310Z II Bobby Shew
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Divitt Trumpets]

[Jaw04]

[mr oakmount]

I play a 1972 Conn B6 Trumpet (cheaper cousin of the Connstellation). It is medium bore and I have to use a quite narrow mouthpiece backbore because it feels so ridiculously open to me. If I want to blend with a section, I screw a deeper mouthpiece cup (deep C or even B) on said backbore. No problems whatsoever cutting through or sailing above a band ... and I am NOT prime lead material.

And I do think that the bore (=diameter at 2nd valve) is but one factor in the overall taper starting from mouthpiece via leadpipe, valve cluster, main tuning slide, bell flare and bell size (... and I am not even getting into gaps and venturis). I mean, you would not describe the physique of a dear person by giving the neck size only

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]

As for a response to the original Post-Topic:

I generally play pre-WarII French Bessons.
Medium-bore Brevete and Large-bore MEHA.

With informed/intelligent selection of mouthpieces, I believe I can play in ANY situation, on the above horns.

I have very good "lung capacity".

(I had a long convo with Maynard Ferguson, about his wind/endurance. He developed this while studying Yoga in India. I was a former Yoga instructor, and was keenly aware of breathing techniques, and the development therein. Thus, I am able to easily play literally any bore-sized horn, without undo effort.)
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Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz

[JWG]

My family owns medium, medium large, large, and extra large bore Bb trumpets.

Our medium bore Conn plays like a laser, meaning the sound feels very directional due to the fact that medium bore horns usually get paired with smaller bells that do not spread the sound to fill a venue. An audience member sitting directly in front of that horn versus one sitting to the side get different impressions and will experience different sound levels.

Our medium large and large bore horns are Bach's with 72 bells; so, while both of those horns play a bit differently due to light and standard bodies and LR versus standard lead pipe, both horns play with greater versatility than the medium bore Conn and blend more easily when section playing.

My extra large bore horn is a Wild Thing with its huge bell. I love that horn because it has chameleon-like qualities with the widest sound palette of any horn I have played. It easily fills a venue with your sound from right to left and from front to back of the venue, and it will light up when you want to push it. It plays well at piano yet will carry a Tchaikovsky 1812 ffff without breaking up.

I have thought about bore size for a while, and I have concluded that a horn having a larger bore just means that you have a greater volume of air molecules vibrating to support the standing wave. I have not concluded whether bore size contributes to the Wild Thing's chameleon like qualities, but the physics of larger bore horns definitely differ from those of smaller bore horns due to the fact that you have more air molecules vibrating within the horn.

An extra large bore horn feels a bit analogous a muscle car, because it will quietly hum along all day on a long drive, then it will roar to life like a monster when you put your foot down.
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF

[mr oakmount]

"Our medium bore Conn plays like a laser, meaning the sound feels very directional due to the fact that medium bore horns usually get paired with smaller bells that do not spread the sound to fill a venue."

My Conn 6B certainly does NOT have a smaller bell, and neither do 38B Connstellations.

[Halflip]

What an amusingly lively thread this is, considering that the OP's real concerns (related to his King Golden Flair, as he makes clear in his second post) were brought to closure nine posts ago.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"

[Divitt Trumpets]

[Andy Cooper]

As I understand it your specific question is about using your Golden Flair. The Golden Flair of the late 70's was a ML bore but light weight tubing. The trumpet was excellent for small pit orchestras where you wanted an intensity in sound at a moderate volume level - without blowing away the entire orchestra.

You could probably make it work in a wind ensemble but you might want to take a selection of mouthpieces to mellow it out a bit.

[kramergfy]

Bore size is just another part of the horn. The Conn 38b had a tiny bore, but a huge bell, and a wide wrap. The post war Besson Meha has a smaller wrap, with a narrow bell but much larger bore. It's all about balance. Malcolm McNab used small bore instruments, but played a huge mouthpiece. Lead players mostly use small mouthpieces, but use more open horns. Resistance and sound is all about balance. BAAAALANCE.
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"I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy

Thread killer.

[Shark01]

Owned a Schilke B6LB for over 35 years, it was very efficient and was so easy to play above high C…..if it was good enough for Bill Chase, it is good enough for me.l

[dstpt]

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]