Anyone play/ed a medium-bore horn?

[trumpetlogic]

I played lead in a jazz ensemble with my .453 medium bore Sima. Had no problem playing over the rest of the band.

[cheiden]

Seems to work for Malcolm McNab.

From the B&S site about the horn they make for him, which is understood to resemble his favorite Bach, before he walked away from Bach.

"The B&S eXquisite Series is inspired by the design coordination between B&S and Hollywood Studio Recording Artist, Malcolm McNab. The series is also named after Malcolm’s 2006 solo debut album.

These trumpets have impeccable intonation and are the ideal instrument to handle the high demands of any professional trumpeter. With the Hollywood film score sound in mind, the eXquisite is the answer for your everyday needs, featuring a medium .444″ bore, French bead, and lightweight hand-hammered one-piece bell."
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[jvf1095]

Hello kehaulani

I don't know if my post here is relevant. But I have two trumpets. One is a Holton Collegiate (circa 1965). It is considered a student horn, but back in the day, it was very well made here in the USA. The Bell is approximately 4.75 inches in diameter; & the .bore size is 460". In addition, I have an American Triumph Harry Peddler & Sons trumpet, made in the USA, around 1952 according to the serial number. The bell diameter is approximately 4.25". I don't know the bore size. (Maybe someone here does)? The Peddler was a student horn too, but not nearly as well made as my Holton. My question/issue I believe might at least be in the ball park to kehaulani's question. Playing this horn, no matter what type of mouthpiece I use, it seems you can't over blow it, or it will "jump up" to the next note. This happens with any valve combination. Valve alignment is good, & so is the compression. In comparison, this does NOT happen with my Holton. Does this mean that a small diamater bell (which I assume goes along with a small bore size) is such that you shouldn't or can't try to play with any volume? So this horn is more suited for say classical music as opposed to big sound jazz? Hope I described this correctly and didn't hijack kehaulani's post Thanks!

[Destructo]

[trickg]

Three very common medium bore trumpets that get talked about a lot are:

Schilke B6
Yamaha 8310Z “Z horn”
Jupiter 1600I Roger Ingram signature

I’ve had my Jupiter 1600I since 2015 and have used it a lot for everything from rock band to brass quintet. It’s not ideal as a classical trumpet but I can certainly use it for that.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[kramergfy]

[lakejw]

I've been playing medium bores since ~2007. For the last 12 years or so my horn of choice is the XO Brass 1600I, designed by Roger Ingram. It's an incredibly versatile instrument, as are all the XO horns, and I don't feel the sound or blow is impacted negatively by the bore size in any way.

Most modern ML horns feel too big for me - tubby and inefficient. Obviously lots and lots of players play them with great success, but I am used to the smaller size.

Recently I picked up a couple Bach 38 horns, which is much like the 37, but with the smaller bore size of .453. The intonation, sound, response, and blow are all improved over a comparable 37, in my opinion.

That said, all you can do is try different horns and see what works for you.
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[trickg]

I didn't post much in my post a bit further up in the thread because I was laying in bed before going to sleep, and I was doing the whole hunt-and-peck typing thing on an iPad.

I found the question about using a medium bore horn kind of interesting, especially considering some of the famous people who we know have used medium bore horns

For starters, there's Bobby Shew, for obvious reasons with the various models of the Yamaha Z horn, all of which are medium bore.

Then of course there's the incomparable Bill Chase who was screaming on a tuning beryllium bell Schilke B6.

Then there's the equally incomparable Roger Ingram who used a modded Schilke S42 before Jupiter built him the 1600I signature model, both of which were medium bore.

Who can forget Maynard's early years when he was wailing on the .438 bore Conn 38B Connstellation?

John Faddis uses his own Schilke Model of S42.

So there are five examples of medium bore horns in the hands of professionals who never seemed to have any issues being heard, which is why I thought it was kind of an interesting question. While those players are all known as being lead/commercial-type players, I'm pretty sure they could be classical players if they wanted to be.

There have been a number of folks who have said that the 8310Z is their do-it-all trumpet that works for everything from ripping lead lines to playing in a Brass Quintet.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Stradbrother]

I've been playing a medium bore NYC Bach. I can't tell if its because of the bore or the horn itself, but wow, it has a great response.
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Getzen 3051 Custom
Kanstul California 101
XO 1624 C
Bach 183 Flugelhorn
Bach LB 229 Eb/D Long Bell
Bach 184 Cornet
Kanstul 920

[Rwwilson]

I find all the focus on bore interesting. The fraction of the total air stream length that has the specified bore is only about 1/4. The rest is the lead pipe and the bell. The fraction increases when valves are depressed so the biggest impact should be with all 3 valves depressed. I’ve never seen anyone comment on this. My Kanstul pic has virtually no tubing with a uniform bore except when the valves are depressed yet it was advertised as large bore. Go figure. Do manufactures scale up everything to match the bore? That is larger lead pipes, bigger bells etc. I don’t think so as I know of large bore horns with fairly small bells and small bore horns with big bells.

[Manuel de los Campos]

I have been playing a 1954 (if I remember well) Conn 22B Victor for years, I used it for jazz / pop music as well for classical music. I liked it very much untill I ran into a Getzen Eterna LB from 'The Dark Ages'. Although a huge difference in bore size I didn't found the Getzen more of an open blow (bore size says very very little in my experience) it was just to me the Getzen has a better sound so I sold the Conn Victor.
I had never problems with blending into the section or soundwise or whatever when using the medium bore Conn 22B not do I have with the Getzen LB. I think it's more a sound problem rather than problems coused by the bore size: I did have problems when using big bell horns like Yamaha Z trumpets or with Bach 180-43 trumpets; I simply do not like the projection of this horns so I have to work too hard making a sound that satisfies me, they do not fit in my concept of sound.
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Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs)

[Subtropical and Subpar]

[Brassnose]

Not to nitpick, but if the Adams A6 has a 4.8 in bell, it’s probably modeled after the 36B not the 38B. I was under the impression that both the 36-Type and the 38-Type bell would be an option on the A6 but that may not be true.

Although not generally an Adams fan, the A6 is high on my want-to-try list, especially the custom version with the nickel silver bell (and of course I won’t tell anyone that I have a Conn 6B on trial right now Will be interesting to see how it’s holding up against my Bach for commercial playing situations)
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
196x/7x Hüttl Silver Colibri 69
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance/Klier/Curry

[jvf1095]

I finally found out, that my Harry Pedler American Triumph horn has a .442 bore; that along with the 4.25 inch bell. With that ( & I realize that one should not try to over blow a horn anyway), with a bell & bore size like that, is this the type of horn given these stats, that will easily jump an octave if over played or over blown? (I hope I'm describing what I'm trying to say correctly). Thanks

[Subtropical and Subpar]

[TJTS]

[Brassnose]

@Subtropical: very interesting observations about the nickel silver. Being a chemist/materials scientist by profession I absolutely get hung up on materials questions and nickel silver and bronze have been on my interest list for awhile.

Also, I did play a Hüttl Silver Colibri (exactly like this one except different finger buttons: https://reverb.com/item/4339082-huttl-silver-colibri-69-bb-trumpet) which does have a large 131 mm nickel silver bell and possibly is a large bore horn (never bothered to measure the bore size; in any case it plays pretty open).

I like it and my teacher also thought it was a good horn. One of the interesting things about it is that it goes from, as you say about the Argenta, an almost cornet like sound to high power play quite easily. I see a similar thing with my nickel silver AR mouthpiece, the dynamic range is enormous and I quite like that.

I completely understand it’s not the material alone but if the A6 with a nickel bell has the same wide sound and power spectrum it is interesting indeed.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
196x/7x Hüttl Silver Colibri 69
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance/Klier/Curry

[kevin_soda]

I've got a Schilke S42L that's a killer horn. Plays very responsive and free. It's got good flexibility and it's very even through the range. All that said, I prefer my Yamaha NY because the intonation and stability are a better fit for me.
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Kevin

[nieuwguyski]

[Tpt_Guy]