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The one I REALLY want!



 
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 11:57 am    Post subject: The one I REALLY want! Reply with quote

Not sure what it is about this horn, but it really makes my mouth water.

https://thein-brass.de/en/instrument/e-eb-d-trumpet-4-valves/
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, the silver plated one pictured has a left thumb actuator to lower the pitch on notes using the 3rd and 4th valves. If you click on the picture of the lacquered version at the bottom of the page, you'll see that an additional con-rod (connection rod) "branch" to a main tuning slide that is strategically placed directly prior to the bell. This is their version of a "pitchfinder," enabling the player to tune down any note and is a feature on many of their rotary trumpets and flugelhorns.

I played one with the Eb setup at TMEA 2020 and found that the low Eb was noticeably sharp. (I'm referring to the concert Gb a minor 3rd below A440.) I thought that that was odd for a 2-3 fingering. Of course, you can easily trigger that note down. My guess is a player would need to spend time finding the ideal placement for all of the slides as you move from playing in the three available keys of E, Eb, and D.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an ex-French horn player, this one makes my mouth water too:

https://thein-brass.de/en/instrument/r-model-in-f-bb/

Wildest, sexiest horn wrap I've ever seen!
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then there is the B, C, Db and D five valve by Blackburn.



https://www.hickmanmusiceditions.com/5-valve-c-trumpet.asp
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
As an ex-French horn player, this one makes my mouth water too:

https://thein-brass.de/en/instrument/r-model-in-f-bb/

Wildest, sexiest horn wrap I've ever seen!


Yes ! V unusual !
(I am a former Hornist, as well )
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vienna Horn
https://www.engelbert-schmid-horns.com/index.php/en/french-horns/vienna-horn

Bach 190-37 - had one but too heavy for me. Still, probably the best, and "dream", Goldilocks horn for me.
https://www.bachbrass.com/instruments/trumpets/professional/19037
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ProAm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember right, Andy Del has this one or an earlier version of it.

https://thein-brass.de/en/instrument/e-eb-d-c-trumpet-4-valves/
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Destructo
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Then there is the B, C, Db and D five valve by Blackburn.



https://www.hickmanmusiceditions.com/5-valve-c-trumpet.asp


Don't be posting this horn on here. Every time I see one, it just makes me sad that I can't afford to buy one.
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JHirakawa
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My horn tech showed me this trumpet. It's a newer version. Depress the 4th valve (hold it down) and you bypass the tubing for that valve, lowering the pitch.

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sd4f
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Then there is the B, C, Db and D five valve by Blackburn.

https://www.hickmanmusiceditions.com/5-valve-c-trumpet.asp


I watched David Hickman's video some time ago, and I just felt a lot of the time "a solution looking for a problem". I haven't played other brass instruments with a fourth valve, except for euphonium and piccolo trumpet, let alone a "5 valve" instrument.

The euphonium was compensated, so the fourth valve was generally in tune, where it extended the range, and could be used as an alternative fingering.

Piccolo trumpet fourth slides need to be adjusted to where you want it to work, it can't do everything at once, that is, if you need it to extend your range, that's it, you won't be using it as an alternative fingering option.

At the end of the day, that's my opinion, but I guess if transposing can be a bit of a problem, a slightly off note is probably better than a wrong one, and I guess with some work, everything can be worked around.
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Blackburn is beautiful, no doubt, but it looks a little unwieldy to me.
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a different direction of development might be more successful. Something along the lines of the double French horn, but with the second set of tubing offset by 1/2 tone only. Will be monster heavy.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You talking about this (conceptually)? http://www.hm-trompeten.de/do/do_do.htm
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a fascinating development. The rotary valve on the bell is very, very intriguing.
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ProAm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JHirakawa wrote:
My horn tech showed me this trumpet. It's a newer version. Depress the 4th valve (hold it down) and you bypass the tubing for that valve, lowering the pitch.

If you bypass tubing aren’t you raising the pitch?
Usually you take a horn pitched in C and add a valve to raise into D when desired. Wasn’t that a Voisin trick?

While I am a Blackburn fan and own quite a few, that 4-valve combo is just too much for me. I’m sure that it is done as well as can be done, though.
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
You talking about this (conceptually)? http://www.hm-trompeten.de/do/do_do.htm


Yes, that is correct!

Link to the photo of the C/G trumpet that you referred to (image does not show in TH but the link leads to it):
http://www.hm-trompeten.de/do/dpp_450.jpg
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProAm wrote:
JHirakawa wrote:
My horn tech showed me this trumpet. It's a newer version. Depress the 4th valve (hold it down) and you bypass the tubing for that valve, lowering the pitch.

If you bypass tubing aren’t you raising the pitch?
Usually you take a horn pitched in C and add a valve to raise into D when desired. Wasn’t that a Voisin trick?

While I am a Blackburn fan and own quite a few, that 45-valve combo is just too much for me. I’m sure that it is done as well as can be done, though.
5
I really don’t have any idea how the Voisin trick was done. But it would make more sense to take a D and add length with the valve to lower it to C. After all that way you could pull the valve slides to bring the fingered notes into tune.
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ProAm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
ProAm wrote:
JHirakawa wrote:
My horn tech showed me this trumpet. It's a newer version. Depress the 4th valve (hold it down) and you bypass the tubing for that valve, lowering the pitch.

If you bypass tubing aren’t you raising the pitch?
Usually you take a horn pitched in C and add a valve to raise into D when desired. Wasn’t that a Voisin trick?

While I am a Blackburn fan and own quite a few, that 45-valve combo is just too much for me. I’m sure that it is done as well as can be done, though.
5
I really don’t have any idea how the Voisin trick was done. But it would make more sense to take a D and add length with the valve to lower it to C. After all that way you could pull the valve slides to bring the fingered notes into tune.

Yes, you are correct. The basic horn is in D, the valve controls the length of tubing that changes the horn to C. I always assumed that the default engaged the extra tubing and gave a horn pitched in C with no valves depressed. You depressed the fourth valve to remove the extra tubing, putting the base pitch in D. I will readily admit that I am likely wrong (as I was with the Blackburn horn, looking only at piston valves, forgetting the rotary one).
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Kanstul 1520 picc. It has three sets of slides and three bells that allow it to be played in G, A and Bb. It isn’t a quick change so I would only switch at an intermission if I wanted multiple keys in one performance.

It also has a fourth valve that has a trill crook, an extension that will lower by a fourth and some other pitch if the trill crook is used instead of the fourth crook on the extension.

That is where I think the Blackburn would shine. You can hot swap the fundamental pitch on the fly, even in a single phrase.

Having this experience is why I commented on your post. Interestingly enough the second valve crook is not removable.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProAm wrote:
If I remember right, Andy Del has this one or an earlier version of it.

https://thein-brass.de/en/instrument/e-eb-d-c-trumpet-4-valves/


Yep. Still use it as my everyday C trumpet. With the large bell, in D it’s an amazing D trumpet. 0us, of all my Eb instruments, this is the one which sings to best. I also have a piccolo and a corno da caccia. Cant beat ‘em!

Visiting Thein 11 (!) years ago, I played some of the best trumpets I have ever gotten my mits on. Their 4 valve Bb rotary is like a force of nature, and their version of a Schilke E3L a revelation. Even the prototype C piccolo was sublime.

There are other makers out there, but they do seem to be able to pull amazing instruments out of their hats time and again.

Cheers

Andy
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