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5 Valve Flugelhorn


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Robson
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:46 am    Post subject: 5 Valve Flugelhorn Reply with quote

Hi guys!

I hope you enjoy! This piece was originally written for low horn


Link

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JoshRzepka
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, that's wild. Great playing and fluidity with such a large range.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very impressive playing and I very much like the sound. Would you care to tell us more about the horn? I’d guess the fourth valve is a Bb/F valve, but what is the fifth valve?
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Robson
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was extremely challenging, especially for me, a humble non professional trumpet player... but it's a cool piece to show the horn

I had a 4 valve flugelhorn in the past but I didn't like the intonation on the low register. As an engineer, I felt that I could solve that problem...

I thought about many options
- 4 valve compensating flugelhorn, like an euphonium
- full double Bb/F flugelhorn, like a horn
- 5 or 6 valves, like a tuba

All of then are much better than a regular 4 valve, but the easiest solution by far is to add a 5th valve

The 5th valve is a "flat whole step", like on the Arnold Jacobs tuba. It's the same lenght of the first slide of a F mellophone. I use the same fingering of a 5 Valve CC tuba.
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is really cool! Turning a flugelhorn into a tuba...maybe you could call it a fluba.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
That is really cool! Turning a flugelhorn into a tuba...maybe you could call it a fluba.

Too late -- already taken:

https://www.robbstewart.com/fluba

http://www.bassethoundmusic.com/fluba.html

I don't think 'tugelhorn' is taken . . .
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Last edited by Halflip on Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Super cool! Love the big, low sound out of a modestly sized instrument. I'd thought about a 4th valve flugelhorn also. How is the weight of your instrument? Did you have to make custom parts?
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth to be told, I don’t exactly understand how you get to those very low notes. Your horn started out as a regular Bb flugel, which goes to low F#. Then you add the fourth valve, which brings it down to low C#. Add the fifth valve, which brings it down to B (or Bb?).

Is this the lowest you play or are you also using pedal tones? Or am I missing something?
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, your playing is excellent!

Where did you get that horn? Did you modify one yourself, or did you have someone make it for you?
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Truth to be told, I don’t exactly understand how you get to those very low notes. Your horn started out as a regular Bb flugel, which goes to low F#. Then you add the fourth valve, which brings it down to low C#. Add the fifth valve, which brings it down to B (or Bb?).

Is this the lowest you play or are you also using pedal tones? Or am I missing something?

I have a Getzen 4-valve flugelhorn. The 4th valve is suppose to bring you down to C#, with all 4 valves down. But the problem is that the C# is more than a half-step sharp. To make it work, I play it as 1-2-3-4 and also have to pull out both the 4th valve slide and the 4th valve dump slide.

I'll defer to Robson to clarify what he does on his 5-valve flugelhorn. But I suspect he doesn't play C# as 1-2-3-4, but instead uses 1-2-3-4-5, with the 5th also pressed down to correct the intonation problem with low C#. He may also use the 5th valve with alternate fingerings to correct intonation problems with pedal F down to pedal C#. And once he gets to pedal C, he plays it open.

Mike
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Robson
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
That is really cool! Turning a flugelhorn into a tuba...maybe you could call it a fluba.


I would love to put my name on the horn, but like you can see, I'm not very lucky....

My name is Robson Adabo de MELLO... but the mellophone already exists

That's why I call it the "5 Valve Flugelhorn"
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Robson
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
Super cool! Love the big, low sound out of a modestly sized instrument. I'd thought about a 4th valve flugelhorn also. How is the weight of your instrument? Did you have to make custom parts?


Thanks a lot!!!!

The 4 valve flugelhorn is already a heavy horn. This one is a little heavier

The rotary valve came from a trumpet valve block, but there are several small custom parts
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"For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"
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Robson
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Truth to be told, I don’t exactly understand how you get to those very low notes. Your horn started out as a regular Bb flugel, which goes to low F#. Then you add the fourth valve, which brings it down to low C#. Add the fifth valve, which brings it down to B (or Bb?).

Is this the lowest you play or are you also using pedal tones? Or am I missing something?


Yes, you are right! I'm playing pedal tones on this piece

I use the 5th valve to improve intonation from low F# to pedal C... After that I have a extra full octave using pedal tones, from pedal C to double pedal C# (close to the double pedal C)

It's also possible to play the double pedal C, but I have to lip the note
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Robson
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tpt_Guy wrote:
Wow, your playing is excellent!

Where did you get that horn? Did you modify one yourself, or did you have someone make it for you?


My wife gave me an Adams F4 and all the modifications were made by a friend here in Sao Paulo (Brazil). His name is Joel Santana and he's a tuba player
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"For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, thanks for the info. I thought it looked like an F4.

You could always call it a Robs-o-phone
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1992 Bach 43GH/43
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1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
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AR Resonance, Frate, Klier
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Robson
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrumpetMD wrote:
Brassnose wrote:
Truth to be told, I don’t exactly understand how you get to those very low notes. Your horn started out as a regular Bb flugel, which goes to low F#. Then you add the fourth valve, which brings it down to low C#. Add the fifth valve, which brings it down to B (or Bb?).

Is this the lowest you play or are you also using pedal tones? Or am I missing something?

I have a Getzen 4-valve flugelhorn. The 4th valve is suppose to bring you down to C#, with all 4 valves down. But the problem is that the C# is more than a half-step sharp. To make it work, I play it as 1-2-3-4 and also have to pull out both the 4th valve slide and the 4th valve dump slide.

I'll defer to Robson to clarify what he does on his 5-valve flugelhorn. But I suspect he doesn't play C# as 1-2-3-4, but instead uses 1-2-3-4-5, with the 5th also pressed down to correct the intonation problem with low C#. He may also use the 5th valve with alternate fingerings to correct intonation problems with pedal F down to pedal C#. And once he gets to pedal C, he plays it open.

Mike


That's perfect Mike! You got it!

First I have to say that I use the 4th valve as a replacement to the 6th position, so I play low D's and low G's on the 4th valve

Considering that, low F is very sharp on 1+4, so I use 5+4. That's perferct because the 4th valve brings the horn to the key of F, and the 5th valve is just like the first valve on a F instrument, like a mellophone.

In the low E I use 2+3+4.... Yes, it's a low E, not low Eb

In the low Eb I use 3+4+5

In the low D I use 2+3+4+5... It's a little sharp, so I use the trigger on the 4th slide to correct intonation

In the low C# I use 1+2+3+4+5 and it's perfect

I play the pedal C open

I know that's a weird fingering, but it has a incredible result intonation wise.
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"For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"
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Robson
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Cool, thanks for the info. I thought it looked like an F4.

You could always call it a Robs-o-phone


Nice! Hahahahahaha
Thanks for the tip!!!!
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"For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for clarifying what fingerings you use.

And I'll also echo Josh's comments above, that your fluidity (especially crossing in and out of the pedal range) was excellent.

Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed that thoroughly. I hope you license that design to get some built.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice playing; the way you worked out how to properly exploit your special instrument is impressive.

It would appear that you've developed the Yma Sumac of flugelhorns!
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