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What leadpipe does the YTR-8335 Xeno II have


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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
Let's rephrase this. My Yamaha Xeno II plays nothing like my Bach 37. . . If it is like a Bach 25 and the bell is like a Bach 37, something else in the sum of all its parts makes it play very different to a Bach 37 lol.


Precisely. As we know, your leadpipe/reciever/venturi combination is so outside of the parameters of a standard 25 pipe that you essentially do not have a 25 pipe (which would affect quite a bit).
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abontrumpet wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Let's rephrase this. My Yamaha Xeno II plays nothing like my Bach 37. . . If it is like a Bach 25 and the bell is like a Bach 37, something else in the sum of all its parts makes it play very different to a Bach 37 lol.


Precisely. As we know, your leadpipe/reciever/venturi combination is so outside of the parameters of a standard 25 pipe that you essentially do not have a 25 pipe (which would affect quite a bit).


But I also compared my Xeno II with two standard Bachs hat have a 25 leadpipe.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1824

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
But I also compared my Xeno II with two standard Bachs hat have a 25 leadpipe.


Correct. But in previous conversations, we have talked about the wide variability of Bach trumpets. For three 25/37 Bachs to play in three incredibly different ways, isn't out of the ordinary. To focus on this part vs. that part is somewhat of a fruitless endeavor unless we know all the horns you are trying are "great."

Have I played a Bach that "feels" like a Yamaha? Yes
Have I played a Yamaha that sounds like a Bach? Yes

One cannot conclusively conclude that a Bach 25/37 will never feel or play like a Xeno II and vice versa.
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Louise Finch
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abontrumpet wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
But I also compared my Xeno II with two standard Bachs hat have a 25 leadpipe.


Correct. But in previous conversations, we have talked about the wide variability of Bach trumpets. For three 25/37 Bachs to play in three incredibly different ways, isn't out of the ordinary. To focus on this part vs. that part is somewhat of a fruitless endeavor unless we know all the horns you are trying are "great."

Sorry, I missed this reply originally.

My honest answer. In my opinion, Bachs should never be this variable. How many Bachs is someone expected to try to find one "great" one? This was the most number of Bachs that I could assemble in one place, and all three are similar in era. Mine is from around 1979, one was from around 1977, and the other was from around 1982.


Have I played a Bach that "feels" like a Yamaha? Yes
Have I played a Yamaha that sounds like a Bach? Yes

One cannot conclusively conclude that a Bach 25/37 will never feel or play like a Xeno II and vice versa.

Ok. Fair enough. All I can say out of this subset of three Bach 25/37's (one was actually a 25/37*) and one Xeno II, my colleague preferred my sound on the Xeno II, followed by my Bach, the 37*, and his Bach.

Playing wise, I preferred the Xeno II, followed by my Bach and the Bach 37* jointly (I liked different aspects of the playability of both. My Bach was more open to blow, his was more lively and quicker to respond, probably owing to the lighter bell), with the other Bach 37 last, as it seemed stuffier.

I had a brief go on the owner of other Bach 37's Schilke S33HD last. On the little time I spent on it, I found it very responsive.

My conclusion was that I really like my Xeno II, it has worked well for me in all playing situation for 8 years, and my colleague says I sound best on it. To me, therefore there is no need to change, and my Bach 37 will become my spare. If I did want to add a second trumpet, I'd be interesting in trying a Schilke, as my first impressions of my colleague's Schilke S33HD was that I like it more than all three Bach 37s. Maybe I'm yet to play a great Bach, but so far the Bach 37 is not jumping out at me. Maybe I'd prefer a 43 or a 72. I don't know.

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1824

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
My honest answer. In my opinion, Bachs should never be this variable. How many Bachs is someone expected to try to find one "great" one?


Up until recently, I'd say around 20-25.


Louise Finch wrote:
Maybe I'd prefer a 43 or a 72. I don't know.


I think you'd prefer a "great" bach more than a random bell on a "not-so-great" bach.
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abontrumpet wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
My honest answer. In my opinion, Bachs should never be this variable. How many Bachs is someone expected to try to find one "great" one?


Up until recently, I'd say around 20-25.

Thanks very much. As a Brit, and with us having smaller retailers, who are very unlikely to have anywhere near 20-25 trumpets of the same make and model in stock at the same time, I would say that this is ridiculous. Actually having to try 20-25 of the same make and model of trumpet to find one "great" one is ridiculous, even if you can find a retailer who has this many in stock. Sorry, that is my opinion.

How do I put this tactfully, either you hold a pretty extreme opinion, or if things really were like this at Bach up until recently, that doesn't sound very good to me.


Louise Finch wrote:
Maybe I'd prefer a 43 or a 72. I don't know.


I think you'd prefer a "great" bach more than a random bell on a "not-so-great" bach.

Maybe I would, but maybe I would still prefer my Xeno II to a "great" Bach. I'm not going to travel the length of the country trying to try 20-25 Bach trumpets, when I'm perfectly happy with my Xeno II. Do I have a "great" Xeno II? I'd guess that Xeno II's are pretty consistent.

When the new 190 series Bachs filter through to the UK, I'd be interested in trying those. Up until then, I see no point in trying Bachs. Like you've said before, to guarantee one of the ones made since quality control improved at Bach, you'd need to buy one with a serial number post 800,000.

i.e.

abontrumpet wrote:

If you see a horn after 800,000 then you know it's underwent the process improvements. That's the number people will care about 10 years from now.


But I believe that you said, that Bach haven't even reached 800,000 yet for the 180s.

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1824

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
I would say that this is ridiculous. Actually having to try 20-25 of the same make and model of trumpet to find one "great" one is ridiculous


Literally everybody agrees.

Louise Finch wrote:
I'm not going to travel the length of the country trying to try 20-25 Bach trumpets, when I'm perfectly happy with my Xeno II.


You shouldn't! But I also think (and who cares what I think? -- you shouldn't) that you form, and many other people form, conclusions about bells, leadpipes, and Bach trumpets, quickly, without realizing the variability of Bach.

Enjoy
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abontrumpet wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
I would say that this is ridiculous. Actually having to try 20-25 of the same make and model of trumpet to find one "great" one is ridiculous


Literally everybody agrees.

Thanks very much.

Louise Finch wrote:
I'm not going to travel the length of the country trying to try 20-25 Bach trumpets, when I'm perfectly happy with my Xeno II.


You shouldn't! But I also think (and who cares what I think? -- you shouldn't) that you form, and many other people form, conclusions about bells, leadpipes, and Bach trumpets, quickly, without realizing the variability of Bach.

Fair enough. They shouldn't be this variable is all that I can conclude.

Enjoy

Thanks very much. I intend to enjoy my Xeno II trumpet, and really hope that you also enjoy whatever you choose to play.

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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