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Who makes the best Bach Mt. Vernon 6C replica?


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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 2:48 pm    Post subject: Who makes the best Bach Mt. Vernon 6C replica? Reply with quote

Title says it all. Looking but no luck. Any help will be welcome. Thanks, K-
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jadickson
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried the Curry 6C?
I don't know about "best"... but he now makes a 6C based on the Mt Vernon Bach.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jadickson wrote:
Have you tried the Curry 6C?
I don't know about "best"... but he now makes a 6C based on the Mt Vernon Bach.

Careful! Curry may make a 6 with a "C" cup, but the rim is based on the Mount Vernon "straight" 6, not the Mount Vernon 6C. (As with all Curry standard mouthpieces, all the cup depths in the 6 diameter share the same rim shape.)

I myself thought otherwise, until Mark Curry replied in the following thread:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160607&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

However, as I mention in the same thread, Marcinkiewicz makes a 6C. On their website, it's listed near the bottom of the "Endorsee" trumpet mouthpiece page (even though it has no actual "endorsee"):

https://www.marcinkiewicz.com/mouthpieces/trumpet/endorsee/

I ordered mine directly from Marcinkiewicz, and they told me that it is their take on an "improved" Bach 6C. It definitely has a rim contour that is very similar to the modern Bach 6C.

Mouthpiece Express lists it under the Marcinkiewicz "Standard" category rather than "Endorsee" (make sure you don't order the 6/10-1/2C; that is a very different animal).
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Last edited by Halflip on Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got a Marcinkiewicz off of eBay. We'll see.
Thanks.
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Jacko1235
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiousity, what's the difference between a modern 6C and a Mt Vernon 6C?
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mt Vernon pieces were a bit larger; those I’ve played are. I think Bach has consistently changed cup depth and diameters with different eras. Mt Vernon seems to be a coveted area for both horns and mouthpieces. Chris Botti, however, plays mouthpieces from the New York era. Poor guy! If he only knew what a Mt Vernon piece could do for him…
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacko1235 wrote:
Out of curiousity, what's the difference between a modern 6C and a Mt Vernon 6C?

Using the "unofficial mouthpiece comparator", the chief difference I see is that the drop-off from the high point of the rim to the outside edge is slightly more gradual on the Mount Vernon 6c, resulting in a rim that is slightly flatter.

Here is the link to the comparator with the two profiles overlaid (the Mount Vernon is the green outline):

https://trumpet.cloud/mpc/index.html?mpc1id=A003300&mpc2id=B010400
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chapahi
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacko1235 wrote:
Out of curiousity, what's the difference between a modern 6C and a Mt Vernon 6C?


I have a Curry 6C (which may be like a Mt. V) and newer Bach 6C. They're different. The Curry feels bigger but plays brighter as if it were a tad shallower.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the Mt. Vernon was Chet's weapon of choice, I would be surprised if it were very bright.
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juanc
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim New makes great pieces, I'm sure you'll find what you are looking for with him. He got all the MV, NY and regular Bach in his website. Great pieces, very good prices and fast delivery.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if you categorize the Mt. Vernon 6C into one group. They didn't have CNC lathes back then so they had humans operating the lathes. Were they all identical? I doubt it. So it really depends on which Mt. Vernon 6C was copied. I have various examples of 6C's. NY, Mt. Vernon, Corp, Corp. and modern ones. I don't have a large letter model. They were all different. Diameter wise, they are surprisingly alike. But the rim is always different. My NY 6C is very deep. The corp 6C has a great sound, but a pretty sharp rim, and tight hole. The corp. has a flat comfortable rim, but the Mt. Vernon rim is the best rim. This is only an opinion about my own mouthpieces. Your mouthpieces and opinions will be different I'm sure.
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a.kemp
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe email Reeves. Their classical series uses Elkhart and mt Vernon rims.

Maybe their 6C is Mt Vernon?
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a Reeves Classical, thanks.
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Jacko1235
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chapahi wrote:
Jacko1235 wrote:
Out of curiousity, what's the difference between a modern 6C and a Mt Vernon 6C?


I have a Curry 6C (which may be like a Mt. V) and newer Bach 6C. They're different. The Curry feels bigger but plays brighter as if it were a tad shallower.


I have the opposite experience. I have a Curry 6C and a modern Bach 6C and, for me, the Bach 6C is brighter and I can geta really nice Lee Morgan ring to it. I find the Curry 6C combined with my Bach Strad 37 gets a great symphonic core to it and it's also equally at home with musicals/movies scores. Chet and Lee at one time both played Martin Committees and Bach 6Cs and they sound completely different.
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Jacko1235
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
Jacko1235 wrote:
Out of curiousity, what's the difference between a modern 6C and a Mt Vernon 6C?

Using the "unofficial mouthpiece comparator", the chief difference I see is that the drop-off from the high point of the rim to the outside edge is slightly more gradual on the Mount Vernon 6c, resulting in a rim that is slightly flatter.

Here is the link to the comparator with the two profiles overlaid (the Mount Vernon is the green outline):

https://trumpet.cloud/mpc/index.html?mpc1id=A003300&mpc2id=B010400


I have a Curry 6C. Love the wide rim and the great core of sound it produces, I just wish that there was a tiny bit more bite as sometimes it's too flat. Do you think the Mt Vernon 6C is different enough to buy one of the replicas listed? As the difference between a Curry 3C. and a modern Bach 3C is night and day.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacko1235 wrote:
I have a Curry 6C. Love the wide rim and the great core of sound it produces, I just wish that there was a tiny bit more bite as sometimes it's too flat. Do you think the Mt Vernon 6C is different enough to buy one of the replicas listed?

As I pointed out in my first post to this thread:

Careful! Curry may make a 6 with a "C" cup, but the rim is based on the Mount Vernon "straight" 6, not the Mount Vernon 6C. (As with all Curry standard mouthpieces, all the cup depths in the 6 diameter share the same rim shape.)

I myself thought otherwise, until Mark Curry replied in the following thread:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160607&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20


Now, I happen to have a Mount Vernon 6C screw rim that I ordered from Jim New as an experiment, and it is a bit less flat with a bit more bite than Curry's "6" rim (which is the same regardless of cup ordered). I definitely think it would be worthwhile for you to order a Mount Vernon 6C top from Jim New along with one of his backbores and try that. (I think he may offer a return policy on non-custom products; ask him to make sure.)
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Halflip. I've already ordered a Marcinkiewicz and a current Bach and have communicated with Jim. If I don't see what I need to from these mouthpieces, then I'll get a New. It's only money.
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a.kemp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Thank you, Halflip. I've already ordered a Marcinkiewicz and a current Bach and have communicated with Jim. If I don't see what I need to from these mouthpieces, then I'll get a New. It's only money.


Just curious how you found the Reeves 6C? Likes/dislikes?
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a.kemp wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
Thank you, Halflip. I've already ordered a Marcinkiewicz and a current Bach and have communicated with Jim. If I don't see what I need to from these mouthpieces, then I'll get a New. It's only money.


Just curious how you found the Reeves 6C? Likes/dislikes?

Do I have a Reeves 6C?

I have been playing a Reeves 42M.
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a.kemp wrote:
Maybe email Reeves. Their classical series uses Elkhart and mt Vernon rims.

Maybe their 6C is Mt Vernon?


A., I don't have the 6C, but I have Reeves' 7C in his classical series. It leans a tad commercial, and coming from Reeves I know that's a bit of a shock, but it's true. Now, give me a moment to get my tongue out of my cheek... There, now I can go on.

It's a very nice piece; superbly comfortable rim but to me it feels closer to a 10.5 than a 7. And I've got a SLEW of 7C's, Reeves is the smallest of the lot. It's a C type cup (I suppose, but with a V'ish cast to it - 'modified V' is the way Marcinkiewicz used to say it), not like a big-bowled 7C, but certainly not shallow. The other thing that surprised me was the throat; quite tight. I've got a measuring piece that says the throat is something like a pretty tight 28 drill; quite tight for a 7C of any make. The sound of the piece is, to me at least, impressive - as is its playability. I can't stress enough how comfy the rim is, and the sound is very clear and carrying - very impressive.

Frankly, I like the diameter of a 7C: more the comfort of Warburton's 6 rim, GR's 64, or Reeves 41 (all feel quite similar in diameter to me)... But as the Reeves 7C is a bit smaller (at least in feel - and we know how that goes), I may look for a 6C to see if it's more in line with the size/feel of most 7's.
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