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Yamaha Xeno vs Yamaha Bobby Shew


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mograph
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhatheway wrote:
mograph wrote:
rhatheway wrote:
mograph wrote:
What are you looking for that your current horn doesn't give you?


I've got a post about that.

Basically, a fuller, rounder, warmer tone. I love my Severinsen but it is very bright. If you have some thoughts on that, please look for my post (entitled "Next trumpet?" in the Horns forum) and chime in!


Have you considered a deeper mouthpiece, like a Curry TC or (even deeper) TF?
... or even a deeper version of your current mouthpiece? I find a Bach 5A quite dark.

https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=197_213_242_711


I've tried deep mps, but not very deep mps. I guess it couldn't hurt to try one of those first. Are either of those Curry mps considered to be very deep?

They're meant to simulate cornet (TC) and flugelhorn (TF) darkness.
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jhahntpt
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 9335 New York and an 8310Z Shew (gen 10). I don'g think I would ever just have the shew as a main Bb. I love it for playing in a pit orchestra and big band, but it doesn't hold up at loud volumes and doesn't blend well IMO with the rest of the band when I've played it in concert band.
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JVL
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhahntpt wrote:
I have a 9335 New York and an 8310Z Shew (gen 10). I don'g think I would ever just have the shew as a main Bb. I love it for playing in a pit orchestra and big band, but it doesn't hold up at loud volumes and doesn't blend well IMO with the rest of the band when I've played it in concert band.


Hello
When you say "It doesn't hold up at loud volume", i think it's more the combination between you and the horn (or maybe your exemplar), than the 8310Z in absolute.
Or maybe the mouthpiece you're using. When i played the 6310z, for some works i used a version of my lead mpc with a piccolo backbore. With the 8310z, this mpc doesn't give me the same comfort i had with the picc bb's version for that kind of job (it's too open).
About the 8310, i can tell you that i'm a lead player, i always had a powerful sound, and when i changed the 6310 for the 8310, all the musicians whatever style or formation, and the sound ingeneers could hear the obvious difference
I know that the Shew models are really singular for you have to learn how to back off and not overblow, otherwise you can't make these horns work.
But if you're talking about classical music, maybe it has not the specific qualities soundwise. I could not say...
Best
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shew not for classical music? Didn't Ronald Romm play one for a while in the Canadian Brass?
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JVL
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry wrote:
Shew not for classical music? Didn't Ronald Romm play one for a while in the Canadian Brass?

I didn't say it was not for classical music, i was making an interrogation, for i'm not a specialist of classical music in pro context.
Due to subjective perceptions and personal tastes, maybe most of the classical players don't like its characteristics.
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steevo
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading published specs of a trumpet to create a mental model of how it responds and plays will probably not lead to meaningful conclusions. It’s hard enough to audition a new instrument in a music store for an hour or so to fully grasp how that trumpet will work for you in the musical environments that you play in.

I own and play a Yamaha 8310Z-II. It has become my go-to Bb trumpet for everything. I own way too many trumpets, from many manufacturers. When I was a music major in the 80’s, I tended to play Bach trumpets with giant mouthpieces. Playing trumpet was practically an athletic activity. I was able to power through and make it work well. At the time I believed that using trumpets and mouthpieces that were more efficient was cheating and I was following the proper path. Fast forward 30+ years, I found myself with other priorities than an hour or two of practicing every day.

Last year I was playing in a community band and had a few dollars in my pocket and thought about adding (yet) another trumpet to my collection. I played everything I could get my hands on. I really loved the new Xeno models, in particular the 8345RS, but it wasn’t different enough from other horns I already owned. I have always been interested in the Yamaha Shew trumpets and while it wasn’t the traditional feel of horn I was used to I decided to take the plunge and buy one. Truth be told, if either the new Bach Apollo or a Getzen 907DLX would have been available in my area, I would purchased one of those.

After getting the Z horn, I found it to be an incredibly versatile instrument. I can make it sound any way I want. It can be zippy and bright. It can be dark and sonorous. It’s almost like the Harold Hill Think Method. I feel like I can will it to sound like anything I want. Intonation is very easy to control; I feel the notes ‘lock in’ when I use the first and third slide adjustments. The best part of the 8310Z-II is when I’m getting tired, I tell myself to relax and let the horn to the work. It does. This trumpet seems to work the best with a relaxed approach. I’ve gone back to my Bach, Benge, Getzen, etc., and this does not happen. This is something that I could not learn from playing for a while at the music store. This is something that reading a spec sheet would never tell me.
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jhahntpt
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVL wrote:

When you say "It doesn't hold up at loud volume", i think it's more the combination between you and the horn (or maybe your exemplar), than the 8310Z in absolute.


I'm referring to how the tone of the trumpet shifts at louder dynamics. When playing the 9335 or any other 'classical' Bb I've owned over the years the tone I get stays more consistent as I put more and more into the horn where the 8310Z gets a lot more sizzle and edge to the sound. Still a desirable quality, but not from the back row of a concert band in my mind.
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maksimgopanchuk
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2024 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: Yamaha Xeno vs Yamaha Bobby Shew Reply with quote

When it comes to comparing trumpets like the Yamaha Bobby Shew (8310Z) and the Yamaha Xeno, it’s important to recognize that specs alone don’t tell the full story of an instrument’s performance. The 8310ZIII is indeed highly regarded and is considered by many to be the best non-9 series Yamaha trumpet.
Several players in your section may have switched to the Bobby Shew model because it offers specific playing characteristics that suit their needs, such as its response, resistance, and overall feel. These factors are often more influential in a player’s preference than specs alone.
Specs provide a technical outline, but they can't convey how a horn will actually feel and sound when played. Factors like how the trumpet blows, its resistance, and the subjective feel can make a huge difference. This is why some players prefer the Bobby Shew over the Xeno, even if the specs of the Xeno seem more impressive on paper.
In the end, both the Bobby Shew and Xeno trumpets have their own strengths and are designed for different playing styles and preferences. It’s not necessarily about one being better than the other, but rather which one fits a player’s needs and playing style best.
As for the sudden popularity of the Bobby Shew trumpet in your section, it could be due to a combination of factors: personal preference, recommendations from peers, or the desire to try something new that has received positive feedback. It’s always good to try different instruments and see what works best for you, but ultimately, sticking with your Getzen if you’re satisfied with it is also perfectly fine.
I consider Getzen one of the coolest companies in the USA that makes excellent horns. They may not have as many players like Bobby Shew for advertising, but I’ve played on many of their trumpets and can say they sound fantastic and have great technical characteristics. Recently, I wanted to buy a few trumpets from them for my store and found out that I would have to wait quite a while. This is good news for their company because it shows that people like Getzen and are willing to wait for their trumpets
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andybharms
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2024 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, the Z horns change color pretty extremely between low and high register, an attribute common to step bore horns. This makes sense, given that you are essentially creating a conical flair within the trumpet. For most classical players, this is not a good attribute. However, I think jazz and commercial players potentially might have a little more wiggle room when it comes to low playing and exact sound color in the low register, such that the trade off is worth it.

The 8335 won’t have this problem. The ones I’ve played have been very even from low to high, almost to a fault.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andybharms wrote:
In my experience, the Z horns change color pretty extremely between low and high register, an attribute common to step bore horns. This makes sense, given that you are essentially creating a conical flair within the trumpet. For most classical players, this is not a good attribute. However, I think jazz and commercial players potentially might have a little more wiggle room when it comes to low playing and exact sound color in the low register, such that the trade off is worth it.

The 8335 won’t have this problem. The ones I’ve played have been very even from low to high, almost to a fault.


Yes, I completely agree about the 8335 Xeno playing very even from low to high. I play the 8335 Xeno II as my main Bb, and this is one of the characteristics which I really like about it. I love the Xeno II Bb. Beautiful clear and pure trumpet sound, very even response and fantastic dynamic control. I use mine for full on symphony orchestra playing but also a community orchestra. I think that it works very well in all settings.

Going back to the OPs question, I can't answer whether the Bobby Shew Jazz models would work better in a community band than the Xeno/Xeno II, as I have not played any of the Bobby Shew Jazz trumpets. All I can say is that I love the Xeno II and am not looking to play anything else. Would I also love the Bobby Shew Jazz. Who Knows! I agree with the others, that you have to try both for yourself in your usual playing setting,

All the best

Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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RL
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good discussion.

I've never told my trumpets for which purpose they've been made, I just play them
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