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Schiller Frankfurt trumpet



 
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rhatheway
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Joined: 02 Apr 2024
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 2:12 pm    Post subject: Schiller Frankfurt trumpet Reply with quote

In one of the local pawn shops I came across a Schiller Frankfurt trumpet. I've never heard of that brand before. Their website (https://www.schillerinstruments.com/about-us/) says the company is from Germany, established in the late 1800s. However, I've never heard of this brand at all, and looking across TH forums there seems to be a general concensus that this is a Chinese knock off. But others say it's a decent horn.

I'm not looking to buy it, just trying to learn more about brands I've never heard of before. Sooo..., curious minds want to know, is Schiller really a horn worth $2600 (marked down to $596 on their website ) or is it really just a POS?
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Schiller Frankfurt trumpet Reply with quote

rhatheway wrote:
In one of the local pawn shops I came across a Schiller Frankfurt trumpet. I've never heard of that brand before. Their website (https://www.schillerinstruments.com/about-us/) says the company is from Germany, established in the late 1800s. However, I've never heard of this brand at all, and looking across TH forums there seems to be a general concensus that this is a Chinese knock off. But others say it's a decent horn.

I'm not looking to buy it, just trying to learn more about brands I've never heard of before. Sooo..., curious minds want to know, is Schiller really a horn worth $2600 (marked down to $596 on their website ) or is it really just a POS?

🤔 I would ask myself “do I trust a company that sells brand new products discounted by $2000 to $596?”

For me that is a resounding no, but ymmv.
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the all-knowing internet, Schiller instruments are designed in Germany but manufactured in Shanghai, China.
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Denny Schreffler
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've stepped up to defend Schiller/Jim Laabs before. TH consensus or not, of course it's built in China.

"Designed in Germany/USA/etc" but built in (__________) ◄ fill in that blank, is something that we should be wise to after more than a few decades of it. Of course it's meant to mislead, if not deceive, but that's the way things are. If you ask Laabs where the horn is manufactured, they will tell you the truth. Same thing for an inflated MSRP. The "reduced to" price is "the real price," and Jim Laabs will negotiate on some instruments, so the out-the-door price might be a bit lower than advertised.

Of the four or five different Schiller B-flat, mezzo-soprano instruments that I've played since 2016, each played exceptionally well and had pro-build feel and finish.

Not a bad idea to carry a mpc with you if you think that you might run into a horn for sale, which might be anytime. If it plays well enough that you think that you might regret not getting it, pawn shops will negotiate — they're usually better at it than we are. Be willing to walk away if you don't think that it's worth it.

To address the OP's main point ►trying to learn more about brands I've never heard of before◄, Schiller gets a very bad rap from players and posers who have never played one (or a good one), so don't buy one thinking that you'll be able to sell it for a profit (or even a wash), but if it's a player, don't hesitate.

—Denny
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denny Schreffler wrote:
Same thing for an inflated MSRP. The "reduced to" price is "the real price," and gJim Laabs will negotiate on some instruments, so the out-the-door price might be a bit lower than advertised.

—Denny

I understand the wink wink nod nod nature of MSRP but a $2000 markdown is not normal for me. Maybe it’s a cultural difference?
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Denny Schreffler
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Denny Schreffler wrote:
Same thing for an inflated MSRP. The "reduced to" price is "the real price," and gJim Laabs will negotiate on some instruments, so the out-the-door price might be a bit lower than advertised.

—Denny

I understand the wink wink nod nod nature of MSRP but a $2000 markdown is not normal for me. Maybe it’s a cultural difference?


I just ignore that kind of thing anymore. Laabs has been honest in all of my dealings with them.

Ever buy anything from Temu or the original version of AliBaba? 88% discount with FREE SHIPPING. Amazon and eBay are doing a less rediculous version of the same thing with the same vendors

But, you're right. The super-inflated sticker price makes Schiller/Laabs look like scammers at worst and shady retailers at best, but I've never experienced anything but honest dealings and agreeable negotiations with them.

—Denny
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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denny Schreffler wrote:
I've stepped up to defend Schiller/Jim Laabs before. TH consensus or not, of course it's built in China.

"Designed in Germany/USA/etc" but built in (__________) ◄ fill in that blank, is something that we should be wise to after more than a few decades of it. Of course it's meant to mislead, if not deceive, but that's the way things are. If you ask Laabs where the horn is manufactured, they will tell you the truth. Same thing for an inflated MSRP. The "reduced to" price is "the real price," and Jim Laabs will negotiate on some instruments, so the out-the-door price might be a bit lower than advertised.

Of the four or five different Schiller B-flat, mezzo-soprano instruments that I've played since 2016, each played exceptionally well and had pro-build feel and finish.

Not a bad idea to carry a mpc with you if you think that you might run into a horn for sale, which might be anytime. If it plays well enough that you think that you might regret not getting it, pawn shops will negotiate — they're usually better at it than we are. Be willing to walk away if you don't think that it's worth it.

To address the OP's main point ►trying to learn more about brands I've never heard of before◄, Schiller gets a very bad rap from players and posers who have never played one (or a good one), so don't buy one thinking that you'll be able to sell it for a profit (or even a wash), but if it's a player, don't hesitate.

—Denny


I might take a mp and go back and try it, just to see what it feels like. I've never cared that much about whether I'm playing a "brand name" or other popular horn (which is why one of my cornets is a Reynolds Medalist, but it plays easily and has the tone and sound I like). In fact I often tend to go the opposite direction from what the crowd usually does.

And besides, I'm a better negotiator than most pawn shops are any day of the week. I've scored some really good deals over the years on gear (amps, pedals, guitars, etc.) that I've purchased from numerous different pawn shops because I'm good at the negotiating game (which is what it really is).

Oh, and as for reselling instruments, I've hardly ever done that, which is why my gear closet continually has more instruments in it than I can play at one time. Oh well... But if I do get rid of instruments, I typically donate them to a school where they can be played and used by students; I've never bought instruments simply to flip them and try to make money.
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 2:52 pm    Post subject: Schiller instruments Reply with quote

Don't buy a Schiller musical instrument. I bought a Schiller professional cornet. Both braces had to be resoldered and numerous seams.
They look pretty, but not any amount is worth buying one.
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a Shiller C trumpet on eBay that looked new, but didn't have the 1st piston, and needed 2 top caps, 3 bottom caps, 2 finger buttons, and springs, valve guides and felts. I have tried any number of Chinese parts and nothing will fit. I called the Shiller number and Laabs number, sent emails, left messages, and was very politely and warmly blown off. Sounded real friendly, talked to Mr. Laab, never followed up or returned my contacts.

I certainly am not impressed.
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huntman10
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Laabs isn't quite local to me, but it's regional.

I sometimes saw kids show up with Schiller instruments for their band appointments. I was not impressed. They were not well made and often had pieces snap off. The materials were not of high quality, nor was the construction.

These were theoretically priced very reasonably, but frankly, still priced too high.

Basically at the Cecilio or Mendini level, in my opinion. $150-200 horns priced at $400-500.

The allusions to Germany and design and "Frankfurt" are not worth considering.

If you want to roll the dice on overpriced Chinese specials, go for it - just be aware what you're signing up for.
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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, from doing more research online and reading more reviews here on TH, I've come to the conclusion that while Schiller/Jim Laabs may have dealt fairly with one person here, all the rest of you seem to have had a much different experience.

Since numbers don't lie, the overwhelming evidence indicates that this is probably NOT a good quality horn, so I'm not even going to waste any time trying it, even for fun (even though I could probably pick it up for $100 or so).

Thanks to all who've provided your feedback.


Last edited by rhatheway on Thu May 23, 2024 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I ever buy one it would be to make a lamp out of it.
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Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces
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rhatheway
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
If I ever buy one it would be to make a lamp out of it.


LOL!

Actually, not a bad idea, but I can find a $10 horn at a lot of places that would work just as well for that!
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