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Larry Smithee
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2002 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question for the jazz pros out there. I am attempting to learn the changes to Coltrane's "Giant Steps" and could use some advice regarding method (s) for developing solo lines on this difficult tune. I do have a considerable bit of music education, so I am not necessarily a beginner in regard to theory or playing bebop in general. Nevertheless, I wouldn't want to try to make a living as a jazz musician either. Many bebop standards give me little or no trouble, such as Joy Spring, Confirmation, Jordu, Daahoud, etc. I can play all day on tunes like those, but this tune is driving me nuts. I sometimes hate to admit to short commings but obviously I'm over my head on this one. HELP???
Larry Smithee
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PH
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Joined: 26 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2002 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found two approaches to this tune seem to work for me. Regardless, it should go without saying that the only way to work this stuff out at first is WAY below tempo. The Aebersold play-along Volume 75 "Countdown to Giant Steps" has been a great help to me.

First approach-This is similar to the way I hear Coltrane working out this tune. On every chord I play the 4-note cell 1-2-3-5 in eigth notes. The first three bars would be (trumpet key) Db Eb F Ab E F# G# B A B C# E C D E G F G A C...

When that is cool at a reasonable tempo I re-order the same pitches (i.e. 1253) and learn to psequence that cell through the entire progression. When that is OK I will alternate the two: 1235 on the Db, 1253 on the E7, 1235 on the A, etc.

Keep going until you can play all 24 of the different cells you can make from the permutations of 1235. (1235, 1253, 1325, 1352, 1523, 1532, 2135, 2153, etc...)

Second approach-Think of the entire progression as a series of V7 chords resolving to I or ii-7 V7 resolving to I. Play something in the last bar of the chorus (Eb-7 Ab7) that resolves to the DbMaj7. Then play something (no time for more than 3 or 4 notes) on the E7 in bar one that resolves to the AMaj7 in bar two. Then play 3 or 4 notes on the C7 that resolves to the FMaj7 in bar three. The sound of your lines and their shape makes a heck of a lot more musical sense when you work with the cadences and resolutions built into the progression.

Above all, go slow and stay calm. Do not relent.
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BeboppinFool
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Joined: 28 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2002 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was at North Texas State back in the late 70's, I studied with Dan Haerle, Rich Matteson, and Jack Petersen. Of all the hints and tips for learning how to play over tunes, the one that grabbed me the most was writing solos over the changes. Now, I don't think they ever actually expected us to go out and regurgitate our written solos on gigs. However, Rich Matteson said that the way we write is the way we *want* to play, so writing several choruses over any tune is a good way for me to find out how I'd really *like* to play over a set of changes.

I can play over Giant Steps at an "easier" tempo than 'Trane took it. Starting slow has advantages, of course, but the disadvantages are that it's hard to build up the way we play on a slow tempo so that it melts into the way we play at a bright tempo. Sometimes it's best to start at or near the desired tempo to get the hang of thinking and executing that fast.

As I get older, I'm finding more and more that the players I like most are ones like Paul Desmond and Gerry Mulligan . . . melodic guys who didn't have that nervous compulsion to pack as many notes as they possibly could into a solo.

Ever heard Barry Harris play Giant Steps? He's the most melodic cat I've ever heard on those changes. He *doesn't* sound like he's spelling out changes, and that's what I like to hear.

While learning a tune, spelling out the changes so that we can hear it and feel it is probably a necessary evil, but my feeling is that we have to get rid of that as soon as possible so that we're playing music, not exercises.

But, you're right, Larry, Giant Steps isn't an easy one to just jump right into and groove, so welcome to the club!!!

Rich
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Quadruple C
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Joined: 28 Nov 2001
Posts: 1448

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2002 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-29 14:24 ]
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Larry Smithee
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 4399

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2002 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everybody for the advice and help. By the way, speaking of Giant Steps, you should all check out the following link...very cool.
Larry Smithee
http://blumpkinnation.com/wsuck/giantsteps.html
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Xenoman
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Joined: 19 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2002 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-03-22 14:39, Larry Smithee wrote:
Thanks everybody for the advice and help. By the way, speaking of Giant Steps, you should all check out the following link...very cool.
Larry Smithee
http://blumpkinnation.com/wsuck/giantsteps.html


Whoa! Way cool!!!
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Quadruple C
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Joined: 28 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2002 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-29 14:24 ]
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