Lip squeak and tougue position

campbrd · Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:44 am Post subject:

Is there a preferred tougue position while doing the off-horn lip squeak exercise or is the position irrelevant? I noticed today that mine is down and back and am worried that I may be subconciously setting for a low note embouchere.
_________________
Richard Campbell

Brass Band of Huntsville

Rocket City Jazz Orchestra
http://rocketcityjazz.net/

Moondust Big Band
http://www.moondustbigband.com/

gerrit2 · Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:49 am Post subject:

I had the same experience. Now I try to place the tongue as high as possible when doing the squeak. Why not? If it doesn't help, it will not hurt either.

newcombutt · Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:44 pm Post subject:

Hmmm

I've been doing BE for 3 weeks now and I can't even do an even lip squeak!

Though, the general consensus on this forum is to not worry about it and just let things happen - so I am going to keep doing the exercises and be patient & let the lips and tongue go where they need to.

By the way (totally off subject) on trumpetteacher.net, there is nothing on the MP3 page. I would like to hear recordings of other players who use the BE method. It would be nice to have a motivation source & have something to aim for - hearing others who are successful using the BE method.

~Paul

[ This Message was edited by: newcombutt on 2004-02-03 23:51 ]

[ This Message was edited by: newcombutt on 2004-02-03 23:52 ]

Larrios · Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:59 pm Post subject:

Hi Richard,

Don't worry too much about tongue position at this point. If you get a good squeak, like the balloon that goes peeeeeeep!!! (credit to Bert for this one, hehe), then that's great and you are ready to move on with roll in 1. Your concern about developing a low note embouchure would have more to do with lipposition than anything else, so if the squeak sounds and feels right, don't overcomplicate things and move on to the next step. I'm not saying that tongue position is irrelevant, but it will fall into place automatically when you proceed to, for example, the tonguing excersise of roll in 2. Take things easy as they come and everything will fall in place with time.

Gerrit, you wrote the following: <<<I had the same experience. Now I try to place the tongue as high as possible when doing the squeak. Why not? If it doesn't help, it will not hurt either.>>>

I don't agree with you on that. If it doesn't help, it will not hurt either. Why would you chose to tense muscles that you might not need at all? That seems like a waste of energy to me. But not only that, it could also block the air from making contact with the lips, causing a lot of tension in your throat. At least, that's my experience with focusing on keeping the tongue higher than needed. When done correctly, I believe your lips will compress the air enough for the high pitch of the squeak. I can actually move my tongue up and down and even backwards while maintaining the squeak. In general I would just keep the attention to the lips and let the tongue figure out what to do by itself.

Ko

campbrd · Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:39 am Post subject:

Thanks for the replies. I agree about not worrying about the tongue position. It is difficult enough for me to just maintain a steady squeak. It is still not very steady or intense and it stops when I move to the horn but it is getting there. I too would like to hear some recordings of other BE user's lip squeaks.
_________________
Richard Campbell

Brass Band of Huntsville

Rocket City Jazz Orchestra
http://rocketcityjazz.net/

Moondust Big Band
http://www.moondustbigband.com/

HJ · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:47 am Post subject:

Hello,

Tongue position when doing the lip squeek is absolutely irrelevant. I can move my tongue through my mouth in every direction and still keep squeeking. Also on the roll in part tongue position is not important. Try to move your tongue around when doing a rolled in tone, ten to one that it does not matter at all where you keep it.
Tongue position only gets relevant when tonguing, and tongue-on-lips gives you a good aiming point. Also zipping the notes is a very simple but very powerful tool to make your tongue do the right thing without having to think of it. Because, be honest: nobody really knows what his tongue is doing, either good or bad, for that matter. You cannot talk about millimeters this way or that, high or low or whatever without missing the point completely. It feels different for everybody and nobody can look in your mouth to correct something wrong. I think general rules are:
-tongue against lip
-tongue as forward as possible
-relaxed tongue

That's it, folks

Bert