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Umyoguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 1726 Location: Baltimore
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:39 am Post subject: Buzzing question |
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Perhaps you can chime in on this one, Mr. H.
I've been finding lately that buzzing in the lower register is really helping to solidify my lower register and stabilize the sound. Nothing I've tried over the years has helped as much as buzzing.
But, I feel that there's a "break" somewhere around C or B below the staff that makes it really difficult to slur cleanly. Buzzing in the vicinity of F#-G below the staff is very, very difficult for me. Not impossible, as I'll spend 20-30 mins down there and eventually I'll contort well enough to make it happen.
After a while of buzzing in that register, my sound generally gets a bit more focus. But I'm wondering if I'm being counterproductive trying to "smooth out" that area of the mouthpiece if it isn't supposed to resonate down there in the first place. My playing has never gotten worse doing this type of work.
I turned to buzzing because nothing I have tried lately has made me more confident about my lower register. I've been practicing for years and it's still one of the weaker aspects of my playing. What I'm doing specifically is Irons exercises 6-9.
Any tips would be helpful, and appreciated.
Jon |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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That is an interesting one.
First of all a disclaimer, I am speaking as myself and not on behalf of Mr. Adam or his approach.
A limited amount of mouthpiece buzzing can help if someone is having trouble keeping the sound production "to the front". A lot of folks let the production slide to the back in the low register. You can still get these notes out this way (unlike in the upper register), but the sound isn't great and it is really hard to connect to the rest of the horn.
You need to focus on keeping the pronunciation at front of your mouth.
A limited amount of buzzing might help if this is the problem. Working on the Glantz studies in the lower keys should also help you carry your middle register tone into the bottom. Two other things that will help are:
1) Practice some alternating playing in a good quality straight mute and then play the same thing open.
2) Practice singing the things you are playing in "head voice" rather than "chest voice" (vocal placement to the front). Don't sing like an operatic baritone. Sing like a tenor--or even counter-tenor.
Let me know how all of this works.
Last edited by PH on Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Umyoguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 1726 Location: Baltimore
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Hmm...Interesting concepts. I'll see what happens. Keeping it out front when I descend is one of the hardest things for me. I'll pay more attention to it.
Thanks,
Jon |
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Derek Reaban Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 4221 Location: Tempe, Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Jon,
One more quick think about "forward" or "out in front" sound...
I really like what Manny say's about this concept (he talks about the emphatic Tooh). I also like the "cooling the soup" concept. Firm corners (not too tight) gets this forward sound happening for me. It really helps when I keep this feel (from a second line G) as I work down to the lower register.
Pat,
What did Bill Adam say about corners or how it should "feel" when talking to a new student? A vibrant ringing sound in your mind certainly guides the body to do the right thing, but did he ever say, "and to keep the sound forward feel a firmness in the corners, or don't let things collapse when moving low or high"?
I'm just curious. _________________ Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:08 am Post subject: |
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I can remember him saying to me once that "the corners come in toward the mouthpiece and grip the air." Of course, at another time he might say something that seems opposite that depending on what you need.
He does change the syllable he has you sing with at different times (i.e. "dah" or "doo"). Sometimes the change in syllable is designed to suggest a physical change to the embouchure or to the shape of the oral cavity. |
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Derek Reaban Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 4221 Location: Tempe, Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:31 am Post subject: |
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PH wrote: | I can remember him saying to me once that "the corners come in toward the mouthpiece and grip the air." Of course, at another time he might say something that seems opposite that depending on what you need.
He does change the syllable he has you sing with at different times (i.e. "dah" or "doo"). Sometimes the change in syllable is designed to suggest a physical change to the embouchure or to the shape of the oral cavity. |
Pat,
That’s very helpful! I knew that he must address this issue and it’s interesting to hear how he would come at the idea. I was actually surprised to read that he said, “the corners come in toward the mouthpiece and grip the air." Sounds good to me! I like to see how Doo or Tooh gets the same idea across without too much thinking on the part of the student. I can see how thought about the corners could lead to corners that are tight, defeating the idea that he was trying to communicate.
I enjoy asking questions here! _________________ Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Jon,
Keeping that sound to the front as you descend is so important. At first it may not be such a great sound and it may not speak, but it will work itself out. So many allow the embouchure to collapse in order to ensure that the low notes will speak. This may feel more secure to the player in the short term but will have bad results in the long run.
In my experience with Mr. Adam directly, the only time I had problems with the low range in a lesson, he had me do some pitch bending from second line G to F# G to F G to E etc.
Derek,
He has used the imagery of spitting a grain of rice off the tip of the tongue as well as cooling the soup, sipping tea, anything but telling the student to feel anything. Instead of saying "make it feel like that" he will just say "do it like that". There is a big difference. I even keep a small bowl of rice in my studio and the kids spit it all over the place. This activates the Buccinators. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Derek Reaban Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 4221 Location: Tempe, Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Bill,
Quote: |
So many allow the embouchure to collapse in order to ensure that the low notes will speak. This may feel more secure to the player in the short term but will have bad results in the long run.
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I was in that camp for the majority of my life! Just recently everything has started to move forward and the quality of my sound down low is just jumping out of the horn with VERY little effort on my part. When things start to come together, it’s really amazing how easy sound production can be!
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Instead of saying "make it feel like that" he will just say "do it like that". There is a big difference.
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I’m right with you. What appears to be a very subtle distinction in presenting an idea can make all the difference in the world in getting the desired result. You probably read my post about the Princess and the Princes. I really like to hear about concepts that I’ve always heard about, but with new meaning through the words of Bill Adam students. What may seem very subtle on the surface is actually extremely prominent in getting the concept to work properly!
Thanks for your comments! _________________ Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest |
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Umyoguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 1726 Location: Baltimore
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Good discussion going here...
Is there any relation between extending the jaw outward slightly and this notion of "keeping it forward?"
I find that I get a huge, resonant sound as I extend the jaw. I've been going about working my low range to smooth the transition between regular range playing, where my lower jaw is slightly behind my front two teeth, to low range, where my lower jaw and upper teeth are effectively even.
Billy,
I will experiment with keeping it forward regardless of result or accuracy for a time - I remember a lot of talk with Rommel in my lessons about process, not result, so this concept resonates with me. I'll let you know.
Thanks all,
Jon |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Umyoguy wrote: | ...Is there any relation between extending the jaw outward slightly and this notion of "keeping it forward?"...Jon |
Maybe so or maybe not. You always need to feel that you play "flat out through the sound."
The big thing is that the sound production needs to be to the front of the mouth or even feel like it happens out in front of your face in all registers. Everything forms to this, with the air as the motive force that keeps it to the front. What actually happens to your jaw (or more likely what you perceive might be happening) will be somewhat unique to each individual. You will know when it is right because it will work better. Meanwhile, you get it by pursuit of concepts rather than by mechanics. |
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BRSpringer Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2003 Posts: 114 Location: Lee's Summit, MO
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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In one of my lessons Mr. Adam told told me that the corners should be "in and down" and that "this is the only isometric muscle action when playing the trumpet."
Barry |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:46 am Post subject: |
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