EMBOUCHURE (your definition)

_bugleboy · Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:33 am Post subject:

I wonder if everyone would be adventurous enough to offer the forum their definition of this most important word.

_________________
Charles Raymond

[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-03-29 19:17 ]

trickg · Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 9:01 am Post subject:

Ok, here goes, blast me if you must.

Embouchure: For playing brass intruments it's the position and setting of the lips in relation to the teeth and mouthpiece that enables the player to blow and vibrate the lips, thus producing the tone in the instrument.

That's how I would define it.

_________________
Patrick Gleason

[ This Message was edited by: trickg on 2002-04-01 12:49 ]

_bugleboy · Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 9:49 am Post subject:

Patrick,

Good reply!

_Don Herman · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2002 9:06 am Post subject:

I'm surprised nobody has quoted Carmines definition of "the whole embouchure", from page 7 of MCFB. I don't completely agree, as I tend to think of it as just the physical part of the body rather than including the horn and air, but it could provide a starting point...
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

_Don Herman · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2002 9:06 am Post subject:

I'm surprised nobody has quoted Carmines definition of "the whole embouchure", from page 7 of MCFB. I don't completely agree, as I tend to think of it as just the physical part of the body rather than including the horn and air, but it could provide a starting point...

_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO

[ This Message was edited by: Don Herman on 2002-04-01 14:20 ]

_bugleboy · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2002 10:11 am Post subject:

Don,

The intent of this thread was not to focus on a Caruso definition per se, but to get personal definitions PLUS perhaps representative statements of other famous teachers and players. However, regarding Carmine, there are two statements that I think are relevant. On p.9 he says,

"The Breath Attack is used in this initial exercise because it is the quickest way to get the lips in focus, to get them touching. Repetition of the Breath Attack eventually brings the lips into the best position. I call this balance; others may call it embouchure."

and on p.7,

"The "whole" embouchure consists of five definite movements:
1) Putting the mouthpiece in contact with the lips.
2) Putting tension on the lips for the note to be played.
3) Positioning the jaw properly.
4) Angling the instrument properly.
5) The blow.

I read this as meaning that when the lips have achieved the best position, as in the p.9 statement, they have achieved balance or an embouchure. I do not read this to mean that air needs to be blown through them for them to be in balance. I do read it to mean that this "best position" balance can only be achieved by blowing air through them over a period of time, afterwhich the lips will be fully capable of being set in a balanced position before initiating a blow. The modifier used on p.7 ("whole") adds the blow to this balance. Since Carmine felt it necessary to modify the word "embouchure" at this point, he obviously believed that the term by itself did not include one of the 5 movements that have been listed. My opinion is that "whole" adds the blow to the equation. At the very least, this analysis, if correct, is a little awkward.

With Carmine I think we have 2 concepts:

1. balance (embouchure)
2. the whole embouchure

Regards,

Charly

_________________
Charles Raymond

[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-04-01 13:13 ]

_Don Herman · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2002 11:23 am Post subject:

OK, Charly, gotcha'. I think Patrick's definition is good enough, and suspect most others feel the same (way to go, Patrick!) I might change "lips" to "lips and other facial tissue/muscles/etc." but other than that it seems fine to me. I keep forgetting to do my default on anything like this -- look it up in a dictionary!

See ya' - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

pair of kings · Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 6:21 am Post subject:

If something isn't whole, is it still what it is?

Look at the TH home page and the picture of Fats Navarro.

_bugleboy · Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 6:28 am Post subject:

"If something isn't whole, is it still what it is?"

Absolutely. Is a one armed man still a man?

Not getting your drift on this. How does it relate to defining embouchure?

pair of kings · Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 7:13 am Post subject:

a one armed man is still a man -
How did I know I wouldn't get away with that.

2nd part of my post -- Look at the picture of Fats Navarro--
That is obviously not the normal embouchure, but I am curious if you could ask him whether air was part of his embouchure what his answer would be.

_bugleboy · Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 9:15 am Post subject:

"2nd part of my post -- Look at the picture of Fats Navarro--
That is obviously not the normal embouchure, but I am curious if you could ask him whether air was part of his embouchure what his answer would be."

I agree. Here's where it gets, unclear. In the picture of Fats, it would seem that his embouchure is very different with air pressure applied to it than it would be if no air was applied. Not so for me and many others. I can set my facial muscles, jaw, etc. (as if in preparation to play) with a completely relaxed respiratory system. And just hold this set up while breathing comfortably through my nose. My guess is that Fats could do this also, BUT perhaps his embouchure would include him compressing the air in his cheeks that would cause them to puff out, a la Dizzy.

IMO, it is important to differentiate between what is meant by "embouchure" and what is meant by what it takes to play a sound. Embouchure, as I have traditionally viewed it, is the set created by the facial muscles, teeth, tongue and jaw prior to the air being blown. I think a lot of people are thinking of "embouchure" as everything the body needs to do to produce sound. I'm not sure if this is a good analogy, but think of like a track event where ths runners are at the block in the set position waiting for the gun. They are ready to run but they're not running. All the muscles are tensed and ready. I think this is why Caruso included the word "whole" (as in whole embouchure) when referring to all the elements of sound production.

Me. I think it is important to differentiate between the set up with air and the set up without air. As I interpret Caruso, he called the set up that is ready to receive air, balance. I like that term as well as embouchure for that readiness set up.

When you watch a runner who is set at the block, it has always impressed me that when the gun fires they start running as if they had been caught in a still frame of a video. They seem to be in full stride right off the block! It's this set position that I like to think of as the embouchure and whatI think should be used as the correct definition of the word.