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New name for KTM?



 
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EBjazz
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Joined: 14 Nov 2001
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Location: SF Bay Area

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello CG forum;
I studied with Claude from 1978-1984 or thereabouts. From my discussions with John Mohan and others, I have realized that the way that I learned how to position my tongue through my lessons with Claude is not the same as those who started their lessons earlier. This quote will help you understand:

<On 2001-12-05 16:30, EBjazz wrote:
I find that when teaching KTM it is important not to "tell" somebody to do it, rather to let them discover it on their own.
This is what Claude did with me and it took quite a while before I realized what I was doing. Claude never said "KTM is the way you should be tonguing, start doing it today". On the contrary. He would ask "So, do you notice anything about KTM?" at every lesson and I would say "Uhhh..like no or something" and we'd move on. End of discussion. Until one day I didn't say no, I actually had observed something...




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Hi there Eric,

In talking with other students of Claude's I've seen that, especially in the earlier years, Claude used to think it was best to "let the student discover" KTM. From what you posted, it appears that Claude gave you specific KTM exercises, but didn't really talk about how important this would become in your playing. With me, Claude waited until my 2nd crash course to tell me about KTM. At that point, he did talk about "the wonders" of it and switched me over by hand writing the exercise that would later appear as the 1st Exercise in tongue level studies. By the end of the week, he had me KTMing the Clarkes as my "Single Tongue" model. With another older student I know, who studied with Claude in the late '60's and early 70's, Claude took the "let them discover it for himself" approach to the point of not even telling him directly anything about KTM. Unfortunately, this student never "got it" (until years later), and he wasn't too happy that Claude didn't teach him about it! Claude definitely changed his tactics and methods over the years and tried new and different things with different students. By the nature of this (necessary) experimentation, not all benefited equally, especially in the earliest days of his teaching.

All for now,

John Mohan>

OK. So I accept all of this, but am having a problem relating this concept to my students.
Of course I make them KT things, but no where near what I went through. I would KT(not KTM) everything. And it worked for me and many others. My problem in my teaching is if I just tell my students to tongue this way they may not fully get it. Also, what do I call it? Since I'm not making the student KT entire Clarke studies, the KT relationship is gone.
I've thought of anchor-tonguing and it works.
I'd like to hear some thoughts on this. ..well duhh..that's why I posted it...

Eb
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And no "active" link in my sig.
Why?

Here's a link
http://www.mp3.com/EricBolvin
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2002 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no set rule about when I introduce my students to KTM, but I usually do it pretty early on, and I do explain it to them, as Claude did for me at the beginning of my second Crash-Course.

At this point I assign them the KTM exercise in the beginning of Claude's "Tongue Level Exercises" book.

And I have my students do the Clarkes in the same way Claude took me through the book. (First time through the book is with KTM, then K, then Multiple-Tonguing, then Slurred on each study with one to two weeks spent on each articulation model. 5 lessons this way on Clarke 1, then 4 lessons on each Clarke through the Eighth Study, playing each exercise with one repeat at a comfortable volume. That's the way I went through the book the first time with Claude. Then of course, two more times through the book in the manner to build air control - and just about everything else (slurred at quieter volumes with many repeats on each exercise and continuing the exercises up higher than the book is written).

When I change students to KTM (the ones that it turns out weren't already doing it naturally), the awkwardness of it goes away for the student very quickly - usually in a matter of weeks.

All for now,

John Mohan
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pair of kings
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Joined: 30 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2002 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q about KTM; can you explain the M? From what I have read I think the 'M' stands for modified? but I really don't understand what it means.
BTW I use the "Tongue Level Exercises" in my daily practice starting with the first exercise, plus the next 2 groups and a few from the other sections as well, alternately slurred & Single Tongue. sometimes K tongue. So what am I missing with KTM?
Also curious if it is a misprint in the 2nd group of exercises? - the patterns are inverted, but halfway through it goes back to the previous pattern.
thanks
PC King

Ok I found this was discussed earlier - I think I get it, the fact that there is a name for it somehow got me confused. so it is a way of single tonguing that keeps the very tip of the tongue 'out of the way' -- is that it?

[ This Message was edited by: pair of kings on 2002-05-22 10:53 ]
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