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CSO audition...again


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MattyK
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone seen the GIANT list on the CSO website for yet another principal trumpet audition??


Matt
>--iii--(

[ This Message was edited by: MattyK on 2004-07-02 19:06 ]
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TrumpetPly1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why hello MattyK. How are you man. You ready for Wichita? You'll prolly be trying out for CSO in the future. Take it easy.

Michael
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought my Radio Symphony Berlin audition had a lot of music. The CSO list is more than twice as long!

John
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Pat
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the recent audition and tenure history of this position, are there capable players who have become cynical or gun-shy about audtioning? Does Barenboim's planned departure help or hurt the process in any way? Or is all of this just par for the course?
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Mzony
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I am concerned, it is another chance for me to win a great job.
Nothing else matters except for my preperation and my execution.

Mike
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SilverTrumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck Mike, I have my eye on that spot, so in a few years.... WATCH YOUR BACK!!!!


HAHAHA Probably couldn't even win that seat in my dreams! Good luck to you though.
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_Clarino
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to hijack the topic at all, but does anyone else think that the recent problems the CSO have been having appointing a principal trumpet are self inflicted? I mean that they may be setting their sights too high, looking for a replacement for Bud, not taking into consideration that he could not possibly have been as good fifty years ago as he was when he retired.

Who could fill those shoes?
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ADziuk
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, while I don't necessarily disagree that they are setting their sights perhaps unrealistically high, I own a lot of those early Chicago recordings, and I would beg to differ that Bud pretty much had the essence of what made him great right from the start. If I finished my career playing like he does on my earliest recording I would be satisfied.


Other than that, have you looked at the list? They have changed their stance about requiring rotary horns in the auditions. I don't know if I appreciate that too much. It used to be that instrument selection was pretty much left up to the musicians for the most part except if a conductor really felt strongly about one piece or another as they came along. There seems to be a current trend to tell trumpet players what they should be playing on. I'm pretty sure Herseth played piston on at least a few of those listed as requiring rotary, and he sounded just great. He probably would have told them to stick it up their you know whats, but I guess I can't really speak for him since I don't know that for sure.

[ This Message was edited by: ADziuk on 2004-07-07 01:28 ]
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stukvalve
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, they might as well just have torn the torch off the statue of liberty and replaced it with a giant steel rotary trumpet. -Max-
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Nonsense Eliminator
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the pieces for which rotary is required:

Academic Festival
Brahms 2
Bruckner 7, 8, 9

Here are the Germanic pieces for which no instrument is specified:

Leonore 2 & 3
Mahler 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, Das Lied
Parsifal

Here are the Germanic pieces for which piston trumpet is specified:

Don Juan
Alpensinfonie
Heldenleben

Rotary trumpet is required for 5 works, all of them pretty much classic examples of when to use rotary. Piston trumpet is required for 10 works, including 3 works where I believe rotary trumpet would be standard in Austria and Germany. In total, there are 13 works where rotary trumpet could be requested, but isn't. So out of 18 opportunities to require rotary trumpet, they have selected 5.

If anything, I would say that these requirements are intended to ensure use of piston trumpet by European applicants, NOT the reverse. Herseth's use of rotary trumpet certainly helped popularize the instrument in North America, so I don't think it's particularly accurate to characterize this as some kind of Euro-centric takeover. This requirement may also help scare off some borderline applicants, which from an audition committee's standpoint is probably a good thing.
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trumpetherald
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
... including 3 works where I believe rotary trumpet would be standard in Austria and Germany.

Heh. For most of them the rotary is always standard for nearly all rep. Piston trumpets are 'jazz' trumpets.
I think Reinhold Friedrich (Frankfurt Radio Orchestra) may use piston quite a bit, though. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

TD

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetherald on 2004-07-07 09:49 ]
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JackD
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clarino - it does seem as if that might be the case.

To be fair though, with the reputation that chair has, they don't want to appoint anyone who isn't 130% top-notch.

Good luck to those that audition!
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john32
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reinhold frederich hasnt been with the frankfurt orchestra for the last 7 years. Balazs nemes and Maya maerkwart are principal trumpets. basically everything is done on rotaries with the exception of modern music that involves fast mute changes which render it impossible on german trumpet.
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trumpetherald
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-07-07 09:56, john32 wrote:
Reinhold frederich hasnt been with the frankfurt orchestra for the last 7 years. Balazs nemes and Maya maerkwart are principal trumpets. basically everything is done on rotaries with the exception of modern music that involves fast mute changes which render it impossible on german trumpet.


Dang, and I knew that, too. Thanks for the correction.

TD
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FTee
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bet a lot of money that the people sitting on the other side of the screen won't be able to tell the difference in sound between a rotary and a piston trumpet. I'm a huge fan of rotaries, but doesn't it strike anyone as just a little bit arrogant for the orchestra to tell applicants what to play IN A PRELIMINARY ROUND? Come on. Believe it or not, it is possible to change the timbre of one's sound while playing the same instrument; that is, a player ought to have one sound concept for the Wesendonk Lieder and another for Stravinsky, and make it come out sounding right.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a scary thought. If a 30 year old Bud Herseth were to audition today he probably wouldn't get a job. Too many conductors giving the hand to the brass. Too many itinerant conductors. Too many orchestras losing their identity. Bud's sound is just too special to fit into today's American orchestra. I think the problem filling the chair is due to the audition committee not reading my previous sentence. They long for the brass section on those recordings, yet there is something that bugs them about "that sound". I know plenty of brass players who don't care for the CSO brass. Too "brassy". Some orchestras have trumpet players playing into plexi-glass shields!!?? The funny thing is that they could find the player they want by having them play the first couple of Getchells. It will be interesting to see if they stay with a Herseth influenced player or not.

[ This Message was edited by: Billy B on 2004-07-07 15:46 ]
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Mzony
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry, but some of this is starting to get stupid. Many orchestras have troubles hiring players. It took the LA Philharmonic 4 years almost to find a principal trumpet. Houston and Dallas seem to be having problems as well. I don't think this is about Herseth at all.
As far as rotary trumpets go, they are important. More and more orchestras REQUIRE their use of them on Brahms, Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, etc.
Even my orchestra required rotary trumpets as part of the signing agreement.
Can a brass player on a committee hear a difference between the two? I don't know. I can't comment. I am not neccessarily a fan of using rotary trumpets, but on the other hand, I have learned many pieces in the repertoire on them and it is hard to go back to pistons for certain pieces. A good sound is a good sound but people get used to hearing rotary trumpets on certain pieces.
The CSO (as with other symphonies) is looking for a guy who is ready to go. Someone who doesn't need a lot of on the job training...especially as far as equipment is concerned.
A guy who auditions for an orchestra like this should be comfortable picking up a rotary trumpet and playing Brahms or Beethoven...no matter what round the material is asked in. If part of the job is to use them (and the CSO uses the frequently and Bud lead the way on that one) and it is part of their tradition, then if you want the job you should get used to the idea of playing them.
Again, I am not a fan of using rotary trumpets, but their use has become a part of our job descriptions. Get used to it.

Mike
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FTee
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone is complaining about the use of rotary trumpets. If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I am a fan of rotaries. I, too, have used them frequently. That said, I find it appalling that the CSO is (apparently) requiring their use in a preliminary round. I don't believe that Bud used a rotary when he was hired, and to foreclose a promising talent from auditioning on the basis of a rotary requirement seems to me absurd. There are a lot of experienced, capable, immensely average players out there who undoubtedly own, and are familiar with, rotary trumpets. Should they be hired over a more talented, exciting, but less-seasoned player on the basis of a familiarity with rotaries? I should hope not. In any event, the problem could be solved easily by putting off the rotary requirement until the final round; that way, a committee would have more flexibility in determining how much weight to put on the issue. After all, let's remember that Mark Ridenour did not play on a rotary at his final-round audition.

[ This Message was edited by: FTee on 2004-07-07 12:55 ]
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blumine
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would imagine that for the prelims, they would just ask for the standards. There were a few CSO auditions that I went to where I brought along 2 quad cases worth of trumpets and the only horn I had to play was my piston C (in both prelims and semis). I think it (the list) is a good way to weed out those who do not have the experience necessary to do the gig. As Bud would say, "This is not a conservatory."

blu
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Nonsense Eliminator
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todd --

Good point. I suppose what I meant was, "...3 works where rotary trumpet would be standard in the country in which the work was written."

***

FTee --

I see no reason not to evaluate whether players are prepared to meet the demands of the job. If the demands of the job include playing a particular instrument, it is eminently reasonable to require it on the audition. I have a hard time imagining that there is anybody out there who is ready to be principal of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and has no way of getting his or her hands on a rotary trumpet -- or a piston trumpet, in the case of some European applicants -- for a couple of months.
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