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Keiths
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Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 35
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 Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I did a search for these and found a few results, but they sound a little different than what I've seen.
I played a friend's trumpet, an older C trumpet that once belonged to John Haynie, and it had a pitch finder on it that would move the tuning slide both directions. They ones I've seen for sale lately only push the slide out. The one I played on had a lever where you would usually see the first valve slide trigger and a rod running to the tuning slide. If you pressed the top, it pulled the tuning slide in. If you pressef the bottom, it pushed it out. Has anyone seen someone making these today?
I think it might be a nice concept. It would enable you to constantly play in the horn's center of pitch instead of lipping notes much. |
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wiseone2
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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Location: Brooklyn,NY
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:25 am Post subject: |
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On 2004-07-25 02:27, Keiths wrote:
I did a search for these and found a few results, but they sound a little different than what I've seen.
I played a friend's trumpet, an older C trumpet that once belonged to John Haynie, and it had a pitch finder on it that would move the tuning slide both directions. They ones I've seen for sale lately only push the slide out. The one I played on had a lever where you would usually see the first valve slide trigger and a rod running to the tuning slide. If you pressed the top, it pulled the tuning slide in. If you pressef the bottom, it pushed it out. Has anyone seen someone making these today?
I think it might be a nice concept. It would enable you to constantly play in the horn's center of pitch instead of lipping notes much.
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The late Jack Holland invented a device called" PitchFinder." It was like a trigger that controlled the tuning slide.
I have seen many versions of this device. Check the Osmun website, I believe they still make and install this device.
Wilmer
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Lawler Bb
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Joined: 27 Jan 2002
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Contact Charlie Melk of Charlie's Brass Works in Milwaukee, WI. He makes a pitch finder, but I am not sure if it exactly what you are describing. I know some of the guys around Milwaukee use them on their C trumpets.
http://www.charliesbrassworks.com |
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Billy B
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Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Des Moines
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I have two pitch finders. One on each side of my head. |
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_PhilPicc
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Joined: 15 Jan 2002
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Location: Clarkston, Mi. USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Just as always curious, how do they work and why would one need one?
Thanks,
Phil
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Keiths
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Joined: 22 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I haven't used one other than that one time, but my understanding is that instead of lipping the notes and not playing in the center of the horn's pitch with the resulting timbre changes, you just adjust the main tuning slide for certain notes with the trigger. For example, you could move your slide in for fifth harmonics, pull out instantly when inserting mutes, etc. Of course, you would need to have pretty good ears, or it would be worthless. I know that several well-known players use them for those reasons, I assume. |
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Irving
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Joined: 11 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| One possible problem of using a pitchfinder is that the tuning slide needs to be turned down a bit so that it will slide in and out of the horn easily. This will change how the horn blows. So you might want to take it into account before installing a pitchfinder. I suppose if you don't like it, you can always have it taken off. But you would also need to get a new tuning slide, or at least get new metal tubing for the old slide. |
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patrick32378
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Joined: 19 Dec 2002
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Location: Denton Tx
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I've thought about these. Of course, these arent to be used in the absence of your ears..but they could come in quite handy. My top line F#, for instance, just cant be lipped down low enough to not crack at a FF. Or say a low soft note at the very end of a long blow...really handy. |
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Billy B
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Location: Des Moines
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| The right mounthpiece for the instrument can have a great deal to do with intonation. For instance the Bach 7E with the 117 backbore takes care of a great deal of the intonation problems on my picc. At a clinic with Charly Davis we used the same piece with different mouthpieces on a variety of horns, mostly the small horns. The back bore and throat size seemed to affect intonation quite noticeably. |
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josephus07
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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I just got a pitchfinder from Charlie Melk (moves tuning slide out only). He barely had to lap the slide at all, and didn't have to do anything to the outer tubes. Tuning slides don't have to be nearly as loose as first and third valve slides, and this operation will only minimally affect the blow of the horn (if at all).
And, any standard tuning slide will still fit in the horn.
http://www.charliesbrassworks.com |
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trumpetmike
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Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:34 am Post subject: |
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I have seen one of Charlie's and many others - they seem like a great idea. I can easily see myself getting one in time (calling Will Spencer!).
The Besson Prestige cornet comes with one of these as standard - the normal first valve trigger goes to the tuning slide, rather than the first valve slide. |
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Trumpetingbynurture
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Apologies for reviving a very old thread, but does anyone know of a pitch finder that adjusts in both directions? I know there used to be the Holland Pitch Finder but not sure if there is anyone making a more modern version? |
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cbtj51
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | I have two pitch finders. One on each side of my head. |
| Keiths wrote: | | Of course, you would need to have pretty good ears, or it would be worthless. |
| patrick32378 wrote: | | I've thought about these. Of course, these arent to be used in the absence of your ears.. |
| Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | | ... but does anyone know of a pitch finder that adjusts in both directions? |
Both directions? Indeed!
Mike
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dstpt
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by dstpt on Fri May 13, 2022 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Brad361
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | I have two pitch finders. One on each side of my head. |
I’ve never tried a horn with a pitch finder, but that’s ☝️☝️ sort of what I’ve always thought.
Brad
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mafields627
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a bi-directional pitch finder would be a great tool. Hit a flat partial, main slide in. Hit a sharp partial, main slide out.
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No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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Trumpetingbynurture
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | | I have two pitch finders. One on each side of my head. |
I’ve never tried a horn with a pitch finder, but that’s ☝️☝️ sort of what I’ve always thought.
Brad |
The whole thing about your ears being a 'pitch finder' is getting a bit weird in the way posts sometimes do on TH... People Having a way to adjust the pitch doesn't eliminate the need for ears, you just adjust the pitch differently. It's not a magical device that circumvents the need to hear the pitch, it's just in one situation, you're adjusting with your embouchure/tongue and the other is with the slide.
There's also a bunch of top-tier orchestral players that have them on their horns, so I'm not sure why people here are thinking of it as a gimmick. I
Pros don't play a low D and C# by bending the pitch down. It'd sound like trash. So I don't see how it's any different to want, for example, to be able to adjust the open G on C trumpet to get it down etc.
Also, plenty of cornets have been built with a main-tuning slide thumb throw, rather than a 1st valve throw. So it's like it's some new thing.
For context, one of my instruments is a vintage instrument with no first slide throw. One can't be installed because the valve tubing is not quite straight. Also, there are a few notes which are just flat... C# and G# in the staff are quite under pitch. Neither can really be 'lipped up' without moving out of centre and having the timbre change. I could have the slides cut down slightly, but then with no 1st slide throw to compensate for the usual 1+2 combos, it's just moving the problem around to different notes.
Why not get a different axe that's more in tune? Because the sound and playability of this particular instrument are really wonderful.
So, if anyone actually knows of a good solution, let me know.
I may end up simply having a rod and a finger ring be attached to the main slide so that I can just use it like that. The slides is already pretty loose, so wouldn't take much to make it work. *shrugs* |
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RETrumpet
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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There was a vintage cornet design, and the horn I saw escapes me at the moment, that has something like you describe. Just a long rod spanning the right side of the valve block with a flat button on each end, soldered to the tuning slide. When gripped in your left hand, the rod could be pushed with the index finger to push the slide out and pushed with the thumb to bring the slide in. Seems like a simple, ingenious solution with no moving parts. If I remember the horn and where I saw it, I'll circle back
As an aside, I use a main tuning slide trigger (out only) on my C for all the reasons you describe. It's also very useful when you end up on the the third of a chord, a quick mute addition, or have a long, strenuous stretch where a manual slide adjustment is impractical and the pitch starts to creep up.
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Last edited by RETrumpet on Sun May 08, 2022 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RETrumpet
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Found it. Check out this old Conn. A longer post for the index finger and just a short button for the thumb, but the same idea.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265491258524?hash=item3dd0831c9c:g:cggAAOSwrl1f9g5D
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Bb: FrankenBach, '72 Committee, Conn 22B, King 2070SGX
C: Bach 229-MK slide/pipe, Bach 226 with YTR-9445(2) pipe
D/Eb: Bach 239 with YTR-9636 pipe
Picc: Stomvi Master, Couesnon Monopole
Cornet: Schilke A2C, '23 Buescher
Flugel: Scodwell Prototype |
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Steve A
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2022 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | | I have two pitch finders. One on each side of my head. |
I’ve never tried a horn with a pitch finder, but that’s ☝️☝️ sort of what I’ve always thought.
Brad |
The whole thing about your ears being a 'pitch finder' is getting a bit weird in the way posts sometimes do on TH... People Having a way to adjust the pitch doesn't eliminate the need for ears, you just adjust the pitch differently. It's not a magical device that circumvents the need to hear the pitch, it's just in one situation, you're adjusting with your embouchure/tongue and the other is with the slide.
There's also a bunch of top-tier orchestral players that have them on their horns, so I'm not sure why people here are thinking of it as a gimmick. |
Agreed. It's probably not a device that everyone needs or wants, but some heavy hitting orchestral players find them useful for particular specialized applications. Especially on C trumpets that tend to have more challenging intonation than Bbs, and in a setting where you regularly have to make quiet, cold entrances on problematic notes, they can be useful modifications. I think it's safe to say that they're not intended in any way as a replacement for ears, but rather to give players a tool to give more consistency and control over open Gs and Cs. |
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