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WHY PRACTICE LIP SLURS?


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sdgtpt
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the years I have spent a great deal of time, energy, and thought into developing a very 'sdgtpt' specific routine. Every note I play in a single day has a very specific reason and a goal to accomplish, then I log it into the journal.

I have been at war with myself over lip slurs. I just don't feel like they do anything for me.

So, the question of the thread is...

Why practice lip slurs?
What is the goal to be achieved?
Why teach this skill to students?
How do YOU approach them?
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camelbrass
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I've had to come to practicing lip slurs from a slightly different angle than you.

In my playing I have been able to develop a good big sound and reasonable register (though not great) by using air and pucker basically alone. My tongue had a very limited role in the whole equation apart from doing large (5 note or more) slurs where the syllable concept (aa-ee) forces the issue. I knew that in order to build range (and endurance) properly my toungue would have to do more than just float round in the lower part of my mouth. Hence I've had to build lip slurs into my routine..so that I can train my toungue to move up and forward so that I can get air speed without stressing, overblowing and killing myself in the process.

I practise them by using intervals from tuning C upwards so that I don't have to change valves in rough 3rds. C to E open, D to F 1, E to G open, F to Bb 1-3,G to Bb 1-3 etc up to the top of my range and then hold my highest note with that setting..I also slur backdown without breaking the excercise. Thanks to Pops McLaughlin for that excercise.

It's really just my take on it but hope it helps.

Regards,

Trevor
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_swthiel
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do a lot of lip slurring in my daily routine.

I use DiMartino's warm-up -- lots of lip bends, lots of lip slurs. I also do Schlossberg exercises as assigned. Plus, I'm working into the Flexus book, and the flexibility exercises include a lot of lip slurs.

It's been my consistent experience that lip slurs improve my control and are part of the quickest route to recovering a decent sound and some endurance if I've laid off for a while. I also think that lip slurs are helping to build strength in my embouchure.

If you're not sure what benefit you're getting from them, you could try taking them out of your routine for a week or two and see what impact that has on your playing ... if you dare ...
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Capt. Z
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always compare lip slurs to the iron pumping of an bobybuilder.

Builds stregth and flexibility.
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trumpetmike
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-08-05 23:51, sdgtpt wrote:
Over the years I have spent a great deal of time, energy, and thought into developing a very 'sdgtpt' specific routine. Every note I play in a single day has a very specific reason and a goal to accomplish, then I log it into the journal.

I have been at war with myself over lip slurs. I just don't feel like they do anything for me.

So, the question of the thread is...

Why practice lip slurs?
What is the goal to be achieved?
Why teach this skill to students?
How do YOU approach them?


Firstly - I think it is excellent that you are trying to build up your own specific practice regime. This is something I encourage all of my advanced students to do (with some guidance), so that they can work primarily on the aspects of their playing that they feel need work. I supply them a mass of exercises, for each aspect of trumpet playing, they can then experiment to see which ones work for them.

Now, onto your specific quesion of Lip Slurs.

I didn't come across specific lip slur exercises until I went to university (along with almost every other aspect of what I consider to be good teaching materials - says a lot for my teachers before that time), they were a big shock to the system, especially as he was insistent upon the quality of sound remaining constant (which is a good thing, but very frustration).

Why practice them?
They are a fantastic tool for increasing flexibility. I have found (in my teaching) that if a student can slur between some of the lower harmonics, they have relatively little trouble in obtaining some of the higher notes. When you come across pieces that require lip slurs (or, indeed, lip trills!), you will thank whoever it was who introduced them to you. For me, the best way of obtaining a trill on G above the stave, is to put down 1&3 and lip trill. Without years of lip slur exercises this would not be nearly as achievable.

What is the goal to be achieved?
Going for the obvious answer - to make lip slurs easier. If you practice, things become easier.
Something to always be aware of is to keep the sound even throughout the exercises. It is very easy to concentrate very hard upon just getting the notes, letting the sound suffer. Whatever you are playing, if the sound is not good, there is something not right (in my humble opinion).

Why teach this skill to students?
So that they don't get the nasty shock I did, later in their playing life.
To encourage them into good habits from the start (as soon as my students are able to play both C and G, I introduce lip slurring exercises between the two notes).
To build up their flexibility, range and ease of transition between high and low registers, whilst keeping the quality of sound constantly high.

How do YOU approach them?
As seriously as every other fundamental.
I use a variety of methods (including How Brass Players Do It (John Ridgeon), Schlossberg and a mass of exercises I have written myself, for me) and concentrate, AT ALL TIMES, upon the sound that is being produced.
I use these exercises in my warm up and don't progress on from the easier ones until they are sounding as I wish them to.
If I am devoting some time to these exercises (which I try to do about twice each month - a whole session devoted to flexibility) I will start with very basic slurs, low in the register, then gradually build up to cover the whole range of the instrument (double pedal C up to double C). Some of the exercises will be purely lip based (based upon the harmonic series) others will be scale based (slurred "bouncing scales" - for example, if starting on low C - C, C#,C, D, C, Eb, C, E, C etc), all the time ensuring that the sound remains consistent.

I know of players who don't use them (like you they are not sure that they help very much) but I also know players who swear by them. I am a fan (in case you couldn't tell!!), they work very well for me, with my style of playing.
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SDW2001
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lip slurs are needed for so many reasons. I do at least 30 minutes a day.

1. They increase flexibility, which is needed greatly in trumpet playing.
2. They build range
3. They develop tone
4. They develop endurance

I would like to know what "slurs" exactly you're doing. "Lip slurs" can mean a lot of things.

For Range: Try the "Extending Range to..." excercises in the Colins's Advanced Lip Flexbilities compilation book. These are great, because they force you to listen while using alternate fingerings.

For Flexibility: Arban's intervals slurred and slurs, Colin's Volume two (in the compilation)

For Tone, Endurance, Strength, Range: Arban's Lip Trills (increasing velocity, alternate between two notes only). These are similar to Schlossberg.

I often use the lip trills to promote bloodflow after a hard practice session. These can be done from low c to g on the staff, from g on the staff to middle c, c to e, e to g, etc. The beauty of the these is that you don't even have to play high to build range, because they build strength.
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_dcstep
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah,
Flexibility
Tone
Range
Endurance
Lip Trills
Musical Interpretation

If you're not gaining in those areas, then you're doing something wrong. Look into Caruso or Balanced Embouchure.

Dave
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quad_c_screamer
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found that lip slurs have helped me alot with my shakes, and they have gradually gotten easier. I, don't know if it's only me, but they seem to be a lot easier the higher I go, but that's probably because the partials are smaller, so I don't know.
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Jazzy_Mike
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:34 pm    Post subject: Bugling or Braces Reply with quote

I experienced this first hand. Lip slurs come in very handy in two cases I found, The first is braces! Having braces as I found is a nightmare when your a serious trumpet player. I learnt that slurs help your lips become accoustom to your mouth/teeth formations. So I played them for crazy with braces, and I worked my way up to lead chair, WITH BRACES! The other time I found slurs very helpful is in the world of Bugling, If your American you may not notice what I mean as much, but as a Canadian military bugler, I play songs like the British Last Post, Revillie, and Rouse, and they can be trickey sometimes to go up and down at quick sucession. Believe it or not, lip slurs, help you be able to nail the notes you want. I always start slurring a week or so before I have to play at a funeral or ceremony. I found that lip slurs allow you to be more confident in the placement of the not your about to hit, even infront of 5000 mournful people.
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't practice lip slurs
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_Don Herman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The intervals aren't slurred?

Should we distinguish between lip slurs and flexibility studies? They are often coupled, or considered the same thing, but I generally think of lip slurs are straight intervals up and down, while flexibilities implies more movement (nonmonotonic) to me.

Either way, I find both useful, for many reasons... Helping to hear pitches, flexibility, getting good sound, endurance, etc.

FWIWFM - Don
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Herman wrote:
The intervals aren't slurred?
FWIWFM - Don


Lol. I knew someone would mention that. And of course, Don, you are absolutely right; the intervals and most CC drills are slurred.

But, what are "Lip Slurs" as an exercise? I usually think of them as repeated intervals, often increasing in tempo from half notes to 16th notes. Yes? No?

I've always thought that this kind of exercise, logically, would be good practice; but, after having done a lot of it in the past, it never seemed to feel like I was getting that much out of doing them.
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Karel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, strange enough I feel that my playing becomes better when I do a lot of stacatto exercises. I never had that feeling by doing a lot of slurs.
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Jansu
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it all depends on what you feel is a weakness in your playing. If you feel you have sloppy tonguing, you practice your tonguing. If you feel you have amazing flexibility without doing any lip slurs, there might be no reason for you to do them. I do lip slurs for my range and or warming up, but only sometimes, not regularly.

I have a question! If you could only use one book for lip slurs, what would it be? Schlossberg, Colin, what else is there? But THE BEST!?
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_Don Herman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Charly -- yup, couldn't let that one by!

I think there's a lot of variation in what we call "lip slurs" or "lip slur exercises". I tend to think more in terms of the intervals spanned than speed, meaning I forgot about a whole class of velocity drills... And of course the lip slurs used to learn lip trills, shakes, etc. So, I guess that puts me largely in the "lip slurs = flexibility" category, though that's not all I use them for. But, Colin's Advanced Flexibility Studies and Walter Smith's Lip Flexibilities books are what I think of when I think lip slur exercises. (Before too many yell, I'm pretty sure I didn't get the names quite right, but hopefully close enough.) I just started using the latter again, and it's a bit humbling, for me anyway.

Onwards! - Don
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jazzartizt1742
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slurs just help in playing music, you don't tongue everything. Also they are good for warm ups to lossen your chops.
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KungFuCharlie
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to call them arm slurs.
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BlueDevil
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard recently that Allen Vizzutti doesn't believe lip slurs should be used as a warm up (but later in a practice session). If this is true, does anyone know what his reasoning is?
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WAKeele
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, I do them all the time! I think slurs make the man...or woman. They help everything in you playing. Steve Patrick has some great ones!
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mattdalton
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlueDevil -
Vizzutti addresses this on page 5 of his Trumpet Method Book 1, saying:

"In my opinion, lip slurs (except in the lowest seven partials) are not a particularly good warm up. They are physically demanding and, therefore, useful later in your practice time. Lip strength (more accurately, the strength of the muscle structure around the lips) as a goal is greatly overemphasized. Although strength is important to a degree, range, endurance, a beautiful sound and advanced technique as a complete package are based on efficiency of breath control, not brute strength."

- Matt
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