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Tracer New Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2002 Posts: 1
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Which embouchure do you think would best achieve playing the upper register the fastest? |
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Goldenchops55 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 216 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Most of it depends on your mouth and teeth formation. |
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DSR Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2002 Posts: 267 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:55 am Post subject: |
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This depends ENTIRELY upon the individual. |
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Emb_Enh Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:26 am Post subject: |
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The one that utilises YOUR natural chop set up right off the bat ...ie.. the most efficient!
_________________
Yours Roddy o-iii<O
www.R-o-d-d-y-T-r-u-m-p-e-t.cC
[ This Message was edited by: Roddyo-iii |
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Warbird Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2002 Posts: 431 Location: Concord, North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone else has said what I agree with, but there are just a few things that I believe are not right no matter who you are.
Things such as loose corners, bulging lower lower lip on the sides, and lips that are stretched to tight are never good. They usually result in an airy and less full sound. I should know, I still suffer from it!
Of course, my trumpet teacher today showed me a lot of it is air flow too, so...
In Christ,
Joseph N. Pack _________________ Holton MF ST307 -Marc Bobby Shew 1E10.3
Bach Strad. Mo 43 - Bach 1X
1929 Conn. - Bach 1X
1935 H. N. White Co. Cornet - Denis Wick 4B |
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tptguy Jerome Callet Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3380 Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that tight, stretched lips are never good. But, "Things such as loose corners, bulging lower lower lip on the sides" are working really well for Maynard, Maurice Andre, and many, many other top players. Best regards, Kyle |
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Guidryte New Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2015 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:55 am Post subject: |
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There is no perfect embouchure. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:12 am Post subject: |
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If we get into every tiny detail there are an infinite number of embouchures. As other posters have said, the best embouchure for you to produce the high register depends in large measure on your physiology.
That being said, there are two different primary approaches. Both involve the positioning of the lower lip relative to the upper lip. One approach is Stevens-Costello, which involves curling the lower lip inward over the bottom teeth. The other approach is Maggio, which involves puckering the lower lip outward. The concept of both is to create the beginning of the aperture tunnel in the soft flesh behind the upper lip. That flesh is easier/more flexible to vibrate than the harder/stiffer flesh of the red of the upper lip.
Please understand that these are extremely general descriptions. The Stevens-Costello and Maggio embouchures involve far more than just lip curl/pucker. However, by experimenting with both methods you can identify which method is most compatible with your physiology. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Post number 1.......
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2479 Location: Northern Ireland
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe the OP can post an update 15 years later. |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1886
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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My embouchure is perfect. I just haven't figured out how to make it work, although I've been trying for almost 50 years. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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JoseLindE4 wrote: | Maybe the OP can post an update 15 years later. |
I didn't notice the date of the original post. I need to look at that in the future. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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TrpPro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 1471 Location: Riverview, FL
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Fifteen years!
Movie quote, "The dead are dead. You ought to bury them." |
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roccotrumpetsiffredi Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2015 Posts: 169
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Bill Adam, Bud Herseth, Harry James, Wynton Marsalis |
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horndoc3 New Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Austin, Tx
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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I will say this, based upon my own experience- if you have a big overbite, you have to avoid too much of a downhill horn slant; you have to learn to be a "two lip" player. My only other thing is don't stretch your lips too thin, try to keep more lip in the mp. It is frustrating to me that my early teachers didn't recognize my embouchure flaws; I learned the corrections myself, then later private teachers corroborated it. _________________ Shires Model A B flat
Bach Strad 37 with Melk leadpipe
Post war French Besson 102xxx
Yamaha C YTR-6445H
Yamaha Shew flugelhorn
Reynolds medalist cornet |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Brad361 wrote: | Post number 1.......
Brad |
SO WHAT ?
Here we go again... |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Self deleted, just not worth the aggravation.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Last edited by Brad361 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Miles wrote that |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:19 am Post subject: |
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It has usually been proven difficult for trumpet players to severely alter their embouchures and achieve rapid results.
Granted it happens. Roy Roman effectively the direct "heir" to the Stevens-Costello triple C embouchure technique is someone who swiftly changed his embouchure and near immediately played] great. However for every Stevens-Costello success story?
There are about four dismal failures. Having said that? You might want to dabble in such a setting just to see if you have the necessary physiology capable of pulling it off. Stevens-Costello is a foward jaw setting and as such most cats cant use it. Why? I have long speculated that in order to pull the Stevens embouchure you're going need an upper lip texture which is very soft. Thus easy to get the air vibrating.
In general the fastest way to add notes to your musical sounding upper register?
A. Work on your stance and breathing. Study both Maynard's video on air support and stance. When I started with my last fulltime big band I literally forced myself to stand and lean back as how Maynard describes various places on Youtube. You won't believe that stance and breathing are major players in your blow until you finally get serious and enforce as essential M/F's breathing and stance habits.
B. Choose a mouthpiece better suited for upper register work. Because the trumpet player who can spend more time in the upper register will certainly build his register faster. That's on average. If you're having trouble adjusting to shallower/smaller equipment? Just start your gigs or rehearsals on your main mouthpiece. However as you get tired out working the bigger piece? Prepare to put the "screamer piece" into the horn. And what inevitably happens is that you'll soon start switching over to the screamer piece earlier and earlier in the night. Until at some point you start the night with it. Use this procedure every time you switch to something smaller or shallower. Dont concern yourself with the edgy tone the small piece creates. As you can always have the back-bore and throat widened by the professionals. Having a more open throat and back-bore was one reason why Maynard sounded so big in every register.
Smaller mouthpieces require "smarter chops". Their shallow size limits the variables involved with playing well. So the shallow piece will likely dictate to you what you need to do to pull off the gig. I suppose you could say that "shallow pieces will better educate a trumpet player". Its been my experience that the mere fact that we're open to trying a new piece? The more this screamer piece helps us learn...
C. Practice your fake books up a minor third, perfect 4th and 5th and lastly an octave higher. And as Maynard said,
"You dont own any note in the upper register until you can play it romantically".
Rest at least as often as you play. Because playing the fake book an octave or even just a fiftth higher is very strenuous. That and likely to induce swollen, over-trained chops.
Articulation studies in the lowest of registers, like Low G and F# will broaden that tone up.
D. Schedule at least two rehearsal sessions per week in a big band or taxing other group. Two per week. Even if all you want to do is to focus on high notes. As we tend not to push ourselves hard enough on our own. Not unless there's someone looking over our shoulder...
E. Study the basic physiology of embouchure and umderstand the 2 aperture theory as described in live video by William Moriarty. Is on Youtube somewhere. As an FYI Bill Moriarty wrote the preface and most of the text for Roy Stevens books.
F. An over-trained embouchure is a huge handicap. Depending upon the extremes of overuse you may reach. Because the only treatment for O/Trained chops is plenty of rest. And while you're resting and getting over your O/T chops? You cant be improving. The chops must first drain of lactic acid, rest, regroup and start over.
Instead of over-doing it? Practice heavy one day, light the next. Heavy, light, Heavy, light.
Thats it for now.. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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