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CG Moutpiece


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Vessehune
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Joined: 06 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it worth the $60 to get the CG mouthpiece? I'm at a point were I'm not locked into any certain mouhpiece (haven't played in a while). So I was wondering if now would be a good time to get one or if they are not even worth it.
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Quadruple C
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-20 23:11 ]
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-06-20 13:19, Vessehune wrote:
Is it worth the $60 to get the CG mouthpiece? I'm at a point were I'm not locked into any certain mouhpiece (haven't played in a while). So I was wondering if now would be a good time to get one or if they are not even worth it.


I think they are worth it. And in light of the fact that people regularly pay over $100 for Reeves and other mouthpieces, and pay over $300 for used New York Bach Mouthpieces and Mount Vernon Bach Mouthpieces, 50 or 60 Bucks for a great mouthpiece is a bargain.

Sincerely,

John Mohan
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-06-20 13:33, Quadruple C wrote:
The CG personal is a very nice mouthpiece. There is also the John Mohan mouthpieces available that are the same as the CG in all ways, but with 2 different cup depths M and S as the CG is fairly deep for lead work. The CG was partly based on an old Heim mouthpiece so it does have the V-cup, large throat and fairly open backbore with about a 7 rim diameter.



Hi there Quad C!

I didn't know about this "Heim" mouthpiece connection. I never really had any detailed conversations with Claude about the development of his "CG Personal" mouthpiece. In talking about the CG series made by Benge that he developed (the CG3, CG7, etc.), he told me that the cup shapes were similar to Bach C cups, but slightly deeper and more V shaped (in that they didn't drop straight down before coming in in the bowl or cup shape, but rather the inner diameter started getting smaller a little sooner than in a typical Bach mouthpiece. He also said his rims were more rounded and a little narrower.

Now, the "CG Personal" is a different story. Claude never played it professionally, as he developed it after his playing years were pretty much over. But he felt it was his best design, and I personally like it a lot. I always have my clearest tone with it. Now lately, I've been playing on Bach 1 1/2 C and even a Schilke 19 (similar to the Mount Vernon Bach 1 Mouthpiece) in that I've been preparing for Germany Symphony auditions and I can get a bigger sound with the bigger diameters. But I've been having a problem with cracking, double-tones ("wolf-tones" as Vincent Bach called them) on the bigger diameter mouthpieces, especially after a lot of playing in the day. I don't have this problem with shallow-cup big diameter mouthpieces (I have several custom mouthpieces with 1 1/2 C Cup diameters, but shallower cups), and I don't have this problem with the "CG Personal" mouthpiece (or my shallower versions made by Kanstul under the name "Mohan 7MV" "Mohan 7SV").

So the end of this long story is, when I subbed on "Evita" last night (it is playing here in Berlin for 4 weeks) I did the show on my good ol' CG Personal. And it went great. I think one of the things I like about it, is that you the player, can tailor the sound with it more than you can with typical C-Cup mouthpieces. You can be bright, or you can be dark with it. And for Solo work, it's fantastic. I get my nicest, clearest tone with it (I use my wife as my "tester" on this point, as it's better to know what the audience hears, not the player standing behind the horn and hearing half the sound through his or her inner ears). And my wife is the most critical listener I've ever found!!!

I might develop a larger diameter cup version of the CG Personal eventually, as the "7" size cup does limit the obtainable volume a bit, which in Orchestral playing can be a drawback. The big throat and backbore make up for this somewhat, but not completely.

So, the bottom line is, get this mouthpiece and stick with it. It'll work for you. The ONLY situation where it might not, is if you are about to assume a principal position with an A Class world orchestra. If you reach that point, you can move to a Mount Vernon Bach 1 (for which youíll pay at least $300 on eBay if and when you can find one). In the meantime, you'll sound great on the CG Personal, and if you need to scream a bit in a big band or rock band, you can get one of my "Mohan" mouthpieces from Kanstul. They have the exact same rim and Modified V-Cup design as the CG Personal, but play a little brighter and make the high notes even easier. I also have a Piccolo Trumpet Mouthpiece (in both trumpet and cornet receiver versions) that has the CG Personal type rim design available. Itís the solution for CG Personal players that also play Piccolo Trumpet.

Lastly, it was interesting to learn this ďHeimĒ information from you QuadC. I wish the Heim mouthpiece was available on the Kanstul Comparator ( http://www.kanstul.net/mpcJN/Compare/CompareIE.HTM ) but itís not. Of the mouthpieces that are available to compare with the CG Personal, a standard Bach 7 (not 7C) seems very close. In fact the New York Bach 7 seems to be even closer than the modern one.

Okay, finally, I've run out of things to say on this topic.

Sincerely,

John Mohan
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Quadruple C
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-20 23:12 ]
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mcstock
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]
On 2002-06-21 07:52, John Mohan wrote:
Quote:

Hi there Quad C!

I didn't know about this "Heim" mouthpiece connection. I never really had any detailed conversations with Claude about the development of his "CG Personal" mouthpiece. Sincerely,

John Mohan



John,
FWIW, in the 1982 Journal of the New York Brass Conference for Scholarships, Claude Gordon wrote an article called, "A Lesson with H.L. Clarke" that mentions the Heim 1 mouthpiece. "I was playing on a so-called high-note mouthpiece which was blocking my every effort to improve . . . . The next lesson I still had it. Clarke said give me that mouthpiece and promptly threw it out of the window. He then rummaged into a drawer and handed me a mouthpiece and said; "Here, play this." Believe me, I never questioned him. It was a Heim #1. "
The same journal also has articles by Carl Leach and Tony Horowitz describing their studies with Gordon.
Best wishes,
Matt Stock
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there Matt!

Nice to see you here!

Do you have these articles or a way to get them? I would love to get copies.

John
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mcstock
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,
I have them. I'll see if I can find a way to make a legible scan of them. If that doesn't work I'll send them snail-mail.
Matt
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dbacon
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt,

Your web page on Jimmy Stamp is excellent! Everyone that has interest in his teaching should check it out. Nice work!


Dave Bacon
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey folks! I too would like a copy of those articles Matt, if it's not too much trouble.
I studied with Leach before Claude.
ebjazz@ix.netcom.com

I have a line of mpcs that is loosly based on the Benge CG mpcs. I always liked those mpcs and they were all the rage in the '70's.
You can read about them on my site under Mouthpieces.

Eb
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mcstock
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2002 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, thanks for the kind words. I've gotten a lot of positive responses to that page. Someday I'll finish the page I started on John Haynie, not someday soon, but someday . . .

John & Eric, I sent you .pdf files of the articles, let me know if there's a problem and I'll send hard copies.

John, thanks for the breathing exercises you sent me a while ago. They've been a big help.
Matt
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there Matt,

The files came successfully today.

A Big Thanks!!!

John
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EricV
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:35 am    Post subject: CG mouthpieces Reply with quote

Just wondering if the cg personal cornet mp will fit a Yamaha Zeno cornet? I am a 50 something "comeback " player in Australia who has discovered Claude and following the SA for the last few months is really making a difference. The mp sounds interesting.
Cheers
Eric
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, they will fit. Both the Kanstul and the Marcinkiewicz will work.
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JediYoda
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan I am told by a mutual acquaintance that there are presently two different manufactures of the CG mouthpiece being manufactured and that one of them is not the true CG mouthpiece...

Any thoughts on that?

Of course that is the same person who claims that Claude said there was only one mouthpiece that was correct for everybody...sort of one size fits all...
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee... I wonder who that is

Kanstul and Marcienciwiz both have a line of CG pieces. Having tried the Kanstul CG3, I can tell you that it is not even close to the Benge CG3.
I do believe that Kanstul is the original maker of the CG personal, so if you want the real McCoy, buy the Kanstul.

Eb
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BPL
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If some one had a Monette or a Taylor, would it be possible to get a CG personal made for it?
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BPL wrote:
If some one had a Monette or a Taylor, would it be possible to get a CG personal made for it?


Only if you want David Monette to come shoot you while you sleep.

Eb
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BPL
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear... sounds like I need to do some homework. Of course what I'm getting at is a "Monette" mpc, with a CG personal cup and rim size and shape, throat etc.. (?) no good?
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BPL
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, let's put it this way... does any one know what model Monette mpc would be closest to a CG personal?

Also, does any one have the specs for the CGP? Rim diameter etc..

Brett
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