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Holding over a high note



 
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chrislb98
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Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 43
Location: NOVA/DC area

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any advice on etiquette for this? I love to nail high notes but I'm afraid of being lynched by the band director if I hold them over (this is mostly in a collegic marching band). When do you consider it appropriate? How high do I have to be? How long do I hold it over?

My favorite recording of someone doing this is Harry Connick, Jr's "Just Kiss Me" when Roger Ingram hods over a Double C at the end, that's what I want to sound like

Thanks,
Chris
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Quadruple C
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-10-01 22:00 ]
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Schilkewilkie
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Joined: 19 Jan 2002
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Location: Ocean County, New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2002 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only hang over if you're playing a very prominent lead spot. If in a chart you have a lot of great stuff up top, and the AUDIENCE realizes that you're working hard up there a lot, THEN you hang over a SECOND at MOST on the last note. On such a chart, this is like your own little bow...like saying,"Hey, I'm still here, folks, and I'm going strong." Maynard does it because he's a band leader, therefore the show is all about him. So, people APPRECIATE his little hangovers because the songs glorify (for lack of a better term) him. Plus, he plays unbelievably all the time, so his notes are always there and always strong. Don't overhang (keep in mind a SECOND at MOST) if there's even a shadow of a doubt that you'll crack it or miss it completely. Remember...tone is vital in playing lead, so make sure you sound good if you hang over. You have to play an entire tune perfectly in every respect playing lead to get everyone to truly like your playing. But that can all be destroyed in a one second hangover that's cracked, missed, out of tune, or bad sounding.
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redface
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the etiquette for this is just common sense - if you listen to all of the "Blue Light, Red Light" album (the one where "just kiss me" first appears) you will notice that `kiss me' is the only track that ingram does a big hang on. This is because the arrangement writes that high trumpet note right at the end, after everyone has hit their final note - making it a feature. if it is not a musical feature of the piece then don't do it. A tiny bit of hang on is allowed sometimes on a regular chart as it cleans up the end - it sound better if the 1st trumpet is the last sound that you hear rather than the 2nd alto who isn't paying attention to the md's cut off.
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Zaphod
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
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Location: Aachen, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point, redface!

I would recommend (and do) about 1/10 second. (Don't use a clock )
- short enough for not pointing out too much, but long enough for dominating the "echo".
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2002 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the Blue Devils at a competition last night and the lead trumpet held over a Double C for a split second at the end of their tuning sequence. It had all the trumpet players on their feet. Yea for drum corps.
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limits_unknown
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, if I were your director, I'd suggest about 10 seconds (soley for my enjoyment) No, but really about 1/10, or 1/5 a sec. somewhere around there. Find a recording of something you'll be playing and then record you AND the recording playing (get all that?). Then play the recording of yourself + the recording back, if it sounded good, keep that sound in your memory bank.

Sorry if that's a bit confusing. If you have any questions e-mail me: will_phil601@hotmail.com

[ This Message was edited by: limits_unknown on 2002-06-22 23:54 ]
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clarion89
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holding over is a really cool thing that trumpet players enjoy doing.

When to hold over depends on the style of music your playing. Popular music idioms, rock, jazz, blues, etc and some commerical applications tend to use the lead trumpet in this way. However, you will need to judge this on a song by song, composition by composition basis. Some pieces really require, musically, a clean release with the rest of the ensemble. Others, like a hard driving blues chart require a screaming high note with a hold over!

How long to hold over? BE TASTEFUL! Too much and you defeat the purpose and, too little and no one knows you did it.

Let the music and the energy of the piece be your guide. I know when I was in high school, my friend and I were always doing this and it drove our director nuts! As I've matured as a trumpet player, I realize that not all situations require this technique. Be mindful of what music your playing and if it seems appropriate then go for it!!
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trjeam
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Joined: 06 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2002 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warning :

This trumpeter decided to hang over a high F and he kept on doing it. he wasn't taste and because he kept on doing it we kept getting low scores. So don't hang something over or don't do anything stupid unless you have permission from your band director.

I am able to sit down with my band director and give her new ideas about things that we could add. Allot of the things I come up with she likes. But of course she doesn't like all my ideas.
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Mark Heuer
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Joined: 23 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2002 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanging a note over is like a wide receiver doing a dance in the end zone after a touchdown. The points have been scored, now it's showboat time.

Mark



[ This Message was edited by: Mark Heuer on 2002-07-17 18:35 ]
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Quadruple C
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2002 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-10-01 22:00 ]
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_bugleboy
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2002 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanging a note over requires the right conception. Too much and at the wrong time and it makes you a showboater, with no taste. Too little and it would have sounded better to just end with the band.

Listen to the guys that do it well and learn!!!
Maynard, Wayne, Roger and Chase are some that I like.

But you still need a place to use it and get some experience doing it. I would think this is what the stage bands in High School and college should be about.
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I guess all us lead players do this occasionally when playing certain types of music. The key is to be musical and not egotistical about it.

The sound can be the icing on the cake on a great musical performance by a group . . . or be a disaster. I've known of some high school marching bands losing their "1" rating due to an out-of-control egotist who sounds like "razor blades in the wind."

If in doubt, ask your band director what he/she wants . . . and trust their advice! I don't imagine they'd approve of either a tuba or a straining 1st trumpet player hanging over!

Also, sometimes the band director knows of a certain contest judge's reputation for hating high note trumpet players who hang over. Ya' gotta know when to blow!

I am the band leader of a 19-piece, all adult, big band that is comprised of mainly band directors and retired military band musicians. I also play lead tpt. in this group. I generally try to blend my sound into the band's so that we have a really rich, smooth sound that comes from fine, experienced musicians.

For this reason, I don't "hot dog" it a lot . . . only if the gig calls for it (such as a concert at a college with a bunch of trumpet-playing students wanting to hear screaming). For dance gigs though, it usually isn't appropriate.

Always be "musical" in your playing. Just because someone CAN do something doesn't mean they always SHOULD.

Sincerely,

Tom Turner
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ByroTrumpet
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Joined: 10 Jul 2002
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,
I also think that it is also a matter of taste. Don't hang over to make up for hitting a high shrilly squeek that no one can hear when the rest of the band is playing. It is annoying. And also, be reasonable, you don't want people to think that you are just a bonehead lead player. Just think... is what I am doing musical? and most importantly... don't tick your director off =)

Byron
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SHS_Trumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what byro said is good. I always listen without playing one time and in my head I'm playing the note If I think it sounds good then I'll try it and if the director likes it then I'll keep doing it.
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TrainWreckJ
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Joined: 16 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asking your director seems to me the best way to go Or just experiment with it in rehearsal till you find a good length. Playing it just past behind the beat is good (at least that's how i think it) ... for an almost too long one, check out "I Love You" on Maynard's Brass Attitude. I'm not sure who does it there (Bergeron, Greene, or Fischer; if any of you guys out there know who plays lead on what song; i'm most curious to know), but they hit it right on the money.
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