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Nicholas Dyson
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Joined: 27 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2002 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I've done a fair amount of transcription of artists like Louis, Lee Morgan and early Miles. Not a ton, but some. When I was transcribing the chords, it was generally pretty easy to figure out where the chords went... ie. Get the bass line and then it's PRETTY MUCH tertian from there.... I vi ii V7, etc.
However, I've always been an ear player. And, now that the more complicated stuff (Brecker Bros, Bob Berg, Don Grolnik, Weather Report, Return to Forever, etc.) is tickling my ear holes and I don't feel like I'm REALLY 'getting it'.
Does anyone have any tips to offer on how to recognize the more complicated chord structures? Do I just keep on keepin on and eventually, with repetition things will click? Anybody got any great Ear Training resources to check out? Anybody got some 'quintisential' tunes that I NEED to check out and transcribe?
Also, I am aware that a lot of these guys' tunes are available in transcription books and collections like that, but that strikes me as paying money to NOT get the education.
Help!
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Nick Dyson
Seattle, Washington
"...many recording sessions are 98% boredom, 2% terror. If you were in the trumpet section for these dates, reverse those figures."
-Jeff Haskell, re: the Sept. '56 sessions for MF's 'Birdland Dreamband'
[ This Message was edited by: nicholas dyson on 2002-06-23 15:27 ] |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2002 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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I would say that the thing that helped me the most was working on tunes with this kind of harmony at the piano. After a while you start to recognize the slash chords and moving changes over pedal point as familiar sounds...just the way you hear ii- V7 I after working on a bunch of standards and bop tunes.
Another thing you can do is to just pick a bass note and play all of the 12 different major triads, 12 minor triads, 3 diminished 7th chords, and 4 augmented triads over that note. Just listen for the sound/color of each. Eventually you learn that a major triad a half-step above the bass note (i.e. Db/C bass) sounds a certain way (phrygian actually), etc.
There are several good piano books that cover these sounds. I really like Mark Levine's "Jazz Piano Book". |
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Halfnote
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2002
Posts: 53
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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I'm hardly as qualified as Mr. Harbison to be responding here, but I thought I'd put in a second vote for "The Jazz Piano Book" by Mark Levine. I've been working with it for a few months now and its most profound impact has been on my ear and chord recognition. Jerry Coker's book "A Guide to Jazz Composition and Arranging" also deals with slash chords and other ii/V7 substitutions. He's got excerpts from tunes (alot of them by Claire Fischer) which he'll voice so that people like me can understand and "hear" them, and then he'll voice them like they're done on the records. He also discusses and recommends several other books that are useful for ear-training and piano/compositional development. Is "compositional" a word?
Peace and Hair Grease, Eli. |
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RooTheHorn
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Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, I know its not as good ear training as doing it yourself but there's a program you can download called 'transcribe' which identifies the notes present in any given piece of sound.
Maybe it would be useful to help you get into recognizing and identifying those crazy Joe Zawinul chords.
Roo |
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Larry Smithee
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 4399
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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On 2002-07-08 20:16, RooTheHorn wrote:
Hey, I know its not as good ear training as doing it yourself but there's a program you can download called 'transcribe' which identifies the notes present in any given piece of sound.
Maybe it would be useful to help you get into recognizing and identifying those crazy Joe Zawinul chords.
Roo
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I have the program called Transcribe but as far I know it will not actually identify the notes of any solo. It works by recording a section or segment of music, after which you can manipulate the speed of that section without disturbing the original pitch. In other words you can slow down difficult or tricky passages, thus aiding you in identifying the pitches. You STILL must identify the notes yourself. I've used this program quite a bit and it is well worth having IMO.
Larry Smithee |
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Nicholas Dyson
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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On 2002-07-08 21:51, Larry Smithee wrote:
| Quote: |
On 2002-07-08 20:16, RooTheHorn wrote:
Hey, I know its not as good ear training as doing it yourself but there's a program you can download called 'transcribe' which identifies the notes present in any given piece of sound.
Maybe it would be useful to help you get into recognizing and identifying those crazy Joe Zawinul chords.
Roo
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I have the program called Transcribe but as far I know it will not actually identify the notes of any solo. It works by recording a section or segment of music, after which you can manipulate the speed of that section without disturbing the original pitch. In other words you can slow down difficult or tricky passages, thus aiding you in identifying the pitches. You STILL must identify the notes yourself. I've used this program quite a bit and it is well worth having IMO.
Larry Smithee
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Excellent! Where can I get my copy of 'Transcribe'???
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Nicholas Dyson
Ottawa, Canada |
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Larry Smithee
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 4399
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent! Where can I get my copy of 'Transcribe'???
[/quote]
Nick,
Try this link: http://www.seventhstring.demon.co.uk/xscribe/
Larry Smithee
[ This Message was edited by: Larry Smithee on 2002-07-08 22:46 ] |
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Larry Smithee
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 4399
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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On 2002-07-08 22:44, Larry Smithee wrote:
Excellent! Where can I get my copy of 'Transcribe'???
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Nick,
Try this link: http://www.seventhstring.demon.co.uk/xscribe/
Larry Smithee
<font size=-2>[ This Message was edited by: Larry Smithee on 2002-07-08 22:46 ]</font>
[/quote]
Interestingly, I was poking around and found this interesting looking program. I think I'm going to have to get this. It claims that the program can identify the chord to almost any recorded tune. Feed the recording through the program and bingo, the chords are identified. If so, that's just too cool to pass up.
http://www.musicians-ear.com/CT.htm
Larry Smithee |
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Larry Smithee
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 4399
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
On 2002-07-08 22:44, Larry Smithee wrote:
Excellent! Where can I get my copy of 'Transcribe'???
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Nick,
Try this link: http://www.seventhstring.demon.co.uk/xscribe/
Larry Smithee
<font size=-2>[ This Message was edited by: Larry Smithee on 2002-07-08 22:46 ]</font>
[/quote]
Interestingly, I was poking around and found this interesting looking program. I think I'm going to have to get this. It claims that the program can identify the chord to almost any recorded tune. Feed the recording through the program and bingo, the chords are identified. If so, that's just too cool to pass up.
http://www.musicians-ear.com/CT.htm
Larry Smithee |
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mark936
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Riverside,Calyfornia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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You guys are way over my head.
I'm presently trying to just proof read a Bill Chase transcribed solo and having a tough time.
I can't play it - too fast and being in 6/8 doesn't help.
"Close up tight."
mm |
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Nicholas Dyson
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Mark,
I don't need proof. It's Bill Chase. I try not to ask too many questions...Less people get hurt that way.... 
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Nicholas Dyson
Ottawa, Canada |
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