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camelbrass
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 weeks in. Have been diligently following the book (together with this forum)

My playing has improved. Endurance and control have markedly improved for such a short space of time. It almost seems like there's some kind of voodoo involved but I suspect I'm in the honeymoon period. There's not of course as it's all very well thought out (I think the tapping the foot approach is very clever). It's just that we're all trained for practice to sound 'musical' (Well I was, brass bands and Arbans).

Can't wait until I've been into it 6 months!!

Thanks for the support.

Regards,

Trevor
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm only 4 weeks in, but it should be about 7. however, i had to take a break because of a large (and painful) pimple on the bottom of my lip (exactly where the rim of my mouthpiece goes) and then i came down with the flu. now i am re-continuing week 4.

so far, quite successful, being able to reach d above the staff with no problems. i have been using the same embouchure for everything now. (my embouchure is made up of me saying the word "mmm" and then from there, i just put the mouthpiece on. barely any effort is made at all to make it, it is very loose and free except in the corners, where there is tension.) no jaw shifting or adjusting of the lips in any way that would be on my own effort. (this is how i used to play. it took me all summer to get rid of that, i was trying to used the james thompson buzzing book, which, although was a tremendous help in keeping one embouchure, to my regret, did not stick with me as of yet. i am currently taking a break from it until mid december.)
my friend noticed and observation however. i played a chromatic scale from g in the middle of the staff down to low f# below, then all the way up to c above the staff and back down to g. he watched me play and said that when i slur up to about high a and above, the corners of my lips turn downwards. is this normal or will it go away?

also, and this issue has gotten better, but is still an annoying presence, i have air leaking from the right side of my top lip, just where my mouthpiece is. is there a way to make it go away? this all started when i used the james thompson buzzing book, trying to create one single embouchure.

here is the routine i do everyday:
-leadpipe buzzing for about 15-20 minutes very quietly, and at certain points, playing different partials. i play e flat for about 5 minutes, and then go up to a 9th above that and then a 4th above that about 5 minutes later. it seems to help a lot if i play these as quietly as possible and let my body do the work.
-i do the 6 notes in exercise 1.
-i do the first line of exercise 2, and then from there, do the james stamp warmup (basic warmup is what it's called i guess. it has a 3 next to it). i jump right into them as if i am still doing the caruso exercises, and treat them the same way. i can only do the first 4 lines, and as i go lower and lower, that stupid leaky air on the right side of my top lip where the mouthpiece is gets worse and worse.
-i then do the caruso exerise 1 again, and then i continue to do the ones i am supposed to do for week 4, taking no breaks in between exercises, and then when i am done, i warm down by playing only notes that are from g in the middle of the staff and downward.

these are the first things i play everyday, in that very order. what other things should i do? what would be a good warm up routine? such as, how do i make a list of an exact warmup routine everyday? when should i play clarke studies, and long tones, and shlossburg things? when should i incorporate lip flexabilities in there? basically i just want a good warm up routine, because i dont really have one anymore.
i also have a book called herbert clarke setting up drills. should i use it, and if so, when and how?
and speaking of clarke, if i have this leaky air buisness only on lower notes, how should i approach playing the technical studies? should i begin more toward the middle of the staff and work my way downward in the exercises or what?

basically, what i am asking is what should i be doing as a warm up, and should i consider these exercises part of the warm up, or something after? (right now, if they arent a warm up, then basically the only thing i am doing as a warm up are the leadpipe things and the stamp, and i dont even do the stamp very well, since they are treated by me like the caruso stuff)

ooh and also a quick question about the caruso, regarding lesson III, exercise 5 (the intervals in 4ths, with soft loud soft). how soft should the first and third notes be and how loud shoud the middle note be? i havent been blasting the middle note. in fact, i have been playing them as effortlessly as possible. is this correct?

as you can tell, i like things to be scheduled out, and told to me straight forwardly. i never used to be this way; this well organized. 3 years ago i could have been the poster child for ADHD. now i could probably be the poster child for extreemly useful OCD.

thats it! phew!
dave
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TWEAK wrote:
i'm only 4 weeks in, but it should be about 7.


You don't need to think of Caruso stuff that way. You're doing it. How far you are into the book progresses with time. There's no rush. Once you get everything going you're just going to keep doing them in routine schedule anyway.

TWEAK wrote:
my friend noticed .... the corners of my lips turn downwards. is this normal or will it go away?


Don't think or be concerned about the way your lips or embouchure look. Stay away from mirrors! : )

TWEAK wrote:

... i have air leaking from the right side of my top lip, just where my mouthpiece is. is there a way to make it go away?


Probably not in a willful way. Wait and see how it's doing in 6 months. Don't worry about it for now. A lot of pros leak air, anyway.

TWEAK wrote:

here is the routine i do everyday:
-leadpipe buzzing for about 15-20 minutes very quietly,


I would reduce leadpipe playing to 5 minutes in the beginning and raise the volume to MF. Several times throughout your practice routine you might try throwing in a minute or two of additional leadpipe long tones. Slur down to the "pedal" Eb and back up slowly. Work your lips!

TWEAK wrote:
... these are the first things i play everyday, in that very order. what other things should i do?


This all sounds fine. Just remember when you start playing first thing in the day to do it like you just put the horn down 5 minutes ago from the previous day. You don't NEED to warm up or pamper your lips. You make it happen; you don't wait for it to happen.

TWEAK wrote:
... what would be a good warm up routine? such as, how do i make a list of an exact warmup routine everyday?


A few minutes on the leadpipe, Six Notes, 2nds and you should be ready to play anything. From this point you can arrange your practice schedule any way you want. Get right into Clarke, Schlossberg, Arban, whatever.

I used to get all my Caruso stuff out of the way first and THEN get into other things. AND I did it the same way every day. Get yourself disciplined into a repetitive, daily practice rhythm ... 20 minutes on and 20 minutes off.
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regarding soft, loud, soft...i dont feel like i need to overblow anything. it actually doesnt get too brassy sounding when i do the exercises. am i doing anything wrong? or should i be trying to blast stuff?
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should always push the soft and loud ends of these studies to (or beyond) your limits. You want to use these studies to push your comfort zone out. Make the loud part of the SLS and LSL studies absolutely as loud as you can play and make the soft end so soft that you are on the verge of losing the note.
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am not sure if this was discussed before, but maybe i missed it.

(by the way, the stuff on here is great. i just finished warming up for the day and i am playing better than ever before.)

lesson III, exercise 5: intervals in 4ths. it says breath control, soft loud soft studies. i played these just by what it said, soft loud soft. the first not was soft, the second note was loud, and the third, soft againg.

so, my question is, in lesson IV, exercise 7: intervals in 5ths...are they played in the same manner? and does that continue with the the 6ths, 7ths, etc?

also, (doing the exercises in 5ths) i was able to go up to a double high g. in 5ths, thats a high c slured to a double high g. should i use open fingerings for the c and the g, or should i use an alternate fingering for the g?
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PH
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TWEAK wrote:

...lesson III, exercise 5: intervals in 4ths. it says breath control, soft loud soft studies. i played these just by what it said, soft loud soft. the first not was soft, the second note was loud, and the third, soft againg.


Each of the SLS & LSL studies consists of 12 counts of playing and 4 counts of rest/nose breath. I think there is a diagram somewhere in the book that shows you how to time the crescendo and decrescendo. Anyway, for the SLS studies I play pp on the first beat, crescendo to p on the second beat, crescendo to mp on the 3rd beat, crescendo to mf on the 4th beat, crescendo to F on the 5th beat, crescendo to ff on the 6th beat, sustain the ff level on the 7th beat, decrescendo to f on the 8th beat, decrescendo to mf on the 9th beat, decrescendo to mp on the 10th beat, decrescendo to p on the 11th beat, and decrescendo to pp on the 12th beat. That brings me to the scheduled rest/nose breath.

Man that is harder to write in words than it would be to show you on staff paper or in person!

For LSL studies you simply do the inverse. It is important that you time the crescendo and decrescendo. Therefore, even when you are doing 6 notes SLS the subdividing of the time is extremely important.

TWEAK wrote:

so, my question is, in lesson IV, exercise 7: intervals in 5ths...are they played in the same manner? and does that continue with the the 6ths, 7ths, etc?


Yes.

TWEAK wrote:

also, (doing the exercises in 5ths) i was able to go up to a double high g. in 5ths, thats a high c slured to a double high g. should i use open fingerings for the c and the g, or should i use an alternate fingering for the g?


Use the regular fingerings for all of the interval studies. I don't think Carmine had me use alternate fingerings for anything except the harmonics.
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is helpful but the i think you are thinking about the long not sls's. i am refering to the interval studies. theyre on page 13 of the mcfb book. it says as follows:

"breath control is the practice of blowing, which is the necessary demand of the instrument. these long tones allow you to concentrate on one movement, the blow, and will make it easier for the muscles to find their way into position. remember to keep the mouthpiece in contact with the lips throughout the study."

it doesnt say anything, however, about the soft loud soft. it is the NEXT PAGE, which goes into it. i am confused why the intervals page is talking about breath control. they would then only be played for 8 counts because they are 2 half notes and a whole note, not 3 whole notes. so if they are then played soft loud soft, then this would mean that ALL the other intervals (the 5ths, 6ths, and so on) and not the breath control exercises themselves would be played in the same manner? or was there just a weird misprint in the book??
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, now I have the book in front of me. The instructions on Page 13 & 14 apply to all the SLS studies. The first of these studies is the six notes SLS on page 14 and the first SLS interval study is on page 16, "Seconds in the breath control soft loud soft series".

All the other interval studies that do not have dynamics indicated are supposed to be played at "room temperature"-one consistent volume throughout the study. This is the way you should have previously played seconds, thirds, etc. in earlier weeks and applies to the 4ths on page 13, the 5ths on page 15, the sixths on page 17, etc.

Is this clear? I have never found this particular aspect of the book to confuse anyone before so I am not quite sure what the problem might be.
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, absolutely clear now. it was just odd seeing the breath control soft loud soft thing on an interval study and i was unclear as to whether or not those were to be played that way as well.

i guess for the sake having less pages in the book, they put a new topic under an old one. thats what got me so confused but i am glad i didnt do them the wrong way because of it.
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flyderman
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:28 pm    Post subject: Beginner Player Reply with quote

Hi Charly, would you recommend the Caruso method to an absolute beginner? Thanks!

Great thread, btw!
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginner Player Reply with quote

[quote="flyderman"]Hi Charly, would you recommend the Caruso method to an absolute beginner?[quote]

before he replys to that, i have to ask an additional question, and comment on something.

i have a student who is in 6th grade. i am trying to show him that he needs to play notes legato, but he spaces them apart. i cant get him to blow without him putting his tongue in between his teeth to tongue a note, because his tongue cuts off his air stream. before i can teach him the 6 note exercise, he first has to be able to tongue correctly and not stop the air, but i cant seem to be able to get that point across to him. how can i be able to do this, since he also is sort of an "absolute beginner"?
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Beginner Player Reply with quote

[quote="TWEAK"][quote="flyderman"]Hi Charly, would you recommend the Caruso method to an absolute beginner?
Quote:


before he replys to that, i have to ask an additional question, and comment on something.

i have a student who is in 6th grade. i am trying to show him that he needs to play notes legato, but he spaces them apart. i cant get him to blow without him putting his tongue in between his teeth to tongue a note, because his tongue cuts off his air stream. before i can teach him the 6 note exercise, he first has to be able to tongue correctly and not stop the air, but i cant seem to be able to get that point across to him. how can i be able to do this, since he also is sort of an "absolute beginner"?


Quick reply here since I'm still out of the country.

Answer to first question about starting a beginner on Caruso is "Yes!"

2nd issue ... about student tonguing between teeth: ignore anything regarding the student's tonguing at this point. Have him use breath attacks for the Six Notes and all Caruso exercises. DON'T say anything to him about tonguing, thus bringing attention to it. You can hang him up for life. As time goes on, and he gets into the tonguing exercises, the CC will fix the tongue automatically. Don't worry about it for now. Get the lips and the air working. There more fundamental.

Remember, a good teacher doesn't tell the student what's wrong, he gives him exercises that will fix it without the student ever knowing there was a problem. Everything should be a positive in teaching. No negatives. That's what's so cool about the CC calisthenics ... they can make you a great teacher!

Keep at it ... you're doing good!
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wasnt sure if this was discussed or not...there is SO much to read... so if it is somewhere, just use a hyperlink to it...
did carmine ever mention anything about multiple tonguing and also about circular breathing??
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Jerry Freedman
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TWEAK wrote:
i wasnt sure if this was discussed or not...there is SO much to read... so if it is somewhere, just use a hyperlink to it...
did carmine ever mention anything about multiple tonguing and also about circular breathing??


Multiple tonguing came up in the way CC taought Clarke and also an extension of the regular tonguing exercise in MCFB
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TWEAK wrote:
did Carmine ever mention anything about multiple tonguing and also about circular breathing??


If you mean double and triple tonguing the answer is, "Yes." It has been discussed someplace in the forum, but basically the regular tonguing exercise is used starting with quarter notes instead of whole notes. It is played as 4 T's followed by 4 K's all the way through the 16th notes. So it would be (starting with the 6 Notes)

Quarter notes 4 T's ... 4 K's
Eighth notes 4 T's ... 4 K's ...4 T's ... 4 K's
Sixteenth notes 4 T's...4 K's...4 T's...4 K's...4 T's...4 K's...4 T's...4 K's

for each note.

Triple tonguing is really a subdivision of double tonguing so once you have the muscular timing down for double it is just a matter of adapting it to a triple rhythm. If you triple by playing tkt ktk tkt ktk then you are exactly double tonguing anyway. I don't know of a specific CC calisthenic for triple.

Then, as Jerry mentioned, you would double and triple tongue the Clarke book as presented in that thread (around here someplace) and many other books as well, e.g., Baermann, Laurent 1-3, etc.

I never discussed circular breathing with Carmine.
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info, i like those patterns...playing 4 notes with t and 4 notes with k.

with tripple tonguing i have been playing ttk but i have yet to try tkt.

i have a benifit concert coming up, and i am playing the variations on a theme from bellini's norma, which is the last theme and variation in the arban book. i was practicing it a lot this summer, and i am just trying to patch up the stinky parts. but i havent really developed my double and tripple tonguing much because i havent really started practicing trumpet until about 2 and a half years ago. before that i was just playing in high school, quite badly i might add. since i took it seriously, i have been struggling with mulitple tonguing, but the exercises you guys have suggested will totally help, i think.

i have the clarke routine that was posted up here in this part of the forum printed out and shoved in my clarke book.

i dont know the Baermann or Laurent thingys at all...i'll try and look for them somewhere...who publishes them? what are their full titles?

thanks for the info everybody!
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_bugleboy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:37 am    Post subject: Re: GETTING STARTED 1 Reply with quote

UPDATE:

The following paragraph has been inserted in the opening post in this thread


The following exercise schedule is the manner in which it was given to me by Carmine starting in June, 1973. It was assigned to me (basically) in two week intervals, as I was taking every-other-week lessons from '73' - '76.' The assignment of a new lesson every week (or every two weeks for that matter) should definitely NOT be viewed as the correct or even desirable manner in which to approach these exercises. I guess Carmine felt comfortable doing it this way with me. OTOH, he told me of one student who flew up from South America for a week to get six months worth of lessons. Each day was a different lesson, but the intent was for the student to wait a much longer time than one day before adding new material to his practice schedule after he returned to SA. It should never be felt that there is any kind of urgency to add new stuff or progress through the book. It is far more important that the muscles become familiar with each new demand than it is for new lessons to be assigned. With beginning students I have often limited the intervals to not going beyond 4ths or 5ths for the first year. But each student is different. If you are using MCFB without a Caruso teacher, give yourself more time before moving to new exercises. Remember, with these drills there is no rush!
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PH
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent point!!! There have been times in my life when I have remained "stuck" on one lesson for several months before moving on. You never complete any of these lessons and there is always more development and refinement possible from even the very first studies.
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've decided that because i felt i moved on too quickly from "week" 6 to "week" 7, that i went back to week 6. i dont think my muscles were conditioned enough to handle the sls 2nds and the minor 7ths, although i had better luck with the 7ths than the sls seconds.

that new update helped me realize that its okay to be in one lesson for a long time and yet still keep growing. i think i am already starting to grow more again because i went backwards.
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