Lips cutting off the air on shallow mouthpieces

bigmoney1103 · Veteran Member Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 121

Hi,
I have a problem. Everytime I play on a shallow mouthpiece after about one minute my lips start cutting off the air in the upper register. I play lead now on a deep mouthpiece (warburton 5MD) and my upper register is fat and LOUD but i know im sacraficing endurance and other things when i do that. I recently emailed Mr. Callet about the DT-10 lead mouthpiece and he said that this was becasue usually mouthpiece's cups and backbores are not balanced with each other and he said that my lips cut of the air because of me putting so much air in to the horn and the mouthpiece not being balanced. Callet said that the DT-10 was balanced and that i could probably use it. I need to know what my problem is and how to fix it. Also I would like to know more about the DT-10. I would really appreciate your replies. Thanks a million.
Blake
PS. I anyone would be generous enough to let me try their DT-10 that would be cool too( I thought i would try)

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

SHS_Trumpet · Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 9:33 pm Post subject:

This has happened to me before what I did was keep playing the piece I eventually just adapted to shallow pieces. Now I can switch back from different cup depths.. as much as I want It just took a litle while to get used to.
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Andrew Fowler
MYNWA
"90% of trumpet music is below high C"

bigmoney1103 · Veteran Member Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 121

Hi Guys,
Thanks so much for your replies. I just took my warburton 4M back from my friend and I have gotten pretty used to it. I am using a Series 80 KT* backbore off my 5MD and used it with the 4M and I have a solid and fat High A and can usually slur up to double C. I workin on gettin a 5SV when i get totally used to the 4M. Thanks again. Keep the replies rollin.
Blake
PS. I totally forgot that in 8th grade when i knew nothing of mouthpiece sizes and played what i was given, I was ussing a shilke 8a4 and to this day I dont know how i ever got a note out of that little thing.

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

Bottoming out...

Basically the resistance in a smaller / shallower mpc is greater than a bigger / deeper mpc, thereby allowing a level of soundwave feedback to the lip, closing the aperture a little, and enabling the higher harmonics to speak. With a mpc that is deeper, the cup is further away from the lip and therefore there is less feedback.

People often complain of bottoming out on a shallow mpc, this is where a lip curl plays it's part, and, for the high range player who has a suitable lip curl [in conjunction with other aspects] bottoming out happens a lot less and hopefully not at all when the corner muscles become so strong that they allow the soft lip centre to do it's [their] job of riding the airstream unhindered by mpc pressure. When experimenting with mpc's, make little changes after long periods of time for maximum results!!
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TptProf · Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 5:30 am Post subject:

You have lip impingement into the mouthpiece cup. The deeper cup and low alpha angle of the Warburton is allowing lip to impinge. If this works for you then it is fine, however, are you experiencing lack of endurance and a lacklustre sound? If not, then if it ain't broke... If you are there are some answers.

You are bottoming out on smaller mouthpieces because of the higher alpha angle on them. Your lip is impinging and touching the cup wall. You could try a smaller volume cup with a lower alpha angle. I would send GR an e-mail and explain your situation.
http://www.grmouthpieces.com
Robert Keith

_bugleboy · Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:58 am Post subject:

Robert,

Is the alpha angle the more critical characteristic in a mouthpiece which might lead to the lips bottoming out? As opposed to, say, the cup depth or inner diameter?

Would it be possible, for example, to have a large mouthpiece (large diameter and cup depth), with one alpha angle, that would be more prone to bottoming out than a shallower/smaller piece with a different alpha angle?

Just wondering.

CR

histrumpet · Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:56 am Post subject:

Charles,
That is a good question. A difference in Alpha angle might effect how my lips grip the mouthpiece but not cause them to bottom out. If one plays with his lips touching and has enough control to keep from blowing them outward into the mouthpiece cup even the depth of the piece should not be a major factor as long as it is not too extreme. Can it be that the type of embouchure one uses determines what mouthpiece one can or cannot play. It seems that those who use the embouchure type I described have the ability to play a variety of mouthpieces with deeper cups and wider diameters but prefer smaller more efficient equipment whereas those who blow their lips apart and out into the cup limit themselves to playing larger mouthpieces with limited ability to play anything smaller. I guess I have rambled on long enough.

Bruce