"Marvin Stamm" French Besson .464 Horn, thoughts?

etorres16

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this horn. For those who play it, or who've played it, can you give me some info? Also, difference between the A and B bell? I tried a search on TH but not much help. Sound characteristics from both bells would be nice. Thanks.

bebop · Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:19 am Post subject: Besson

I have played/owned many of the Stamm Bessons. The A bell has a broader sound than the B bell. The B bell has a tighter blow to it. I like the A bell on all of the horns that I have played.

The Stamm Besson is a middle of the road horn I think. It has some core to the sound , but it is still quick. It has a broader wider sound than a Bach 37. The setup I liked best was the 464 with the D slide and no heavy caps.

A very good all around horn for htthe money. I also like the French Besson International. It played really good for the amount of money.
Jim

DCB1 · Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:48 am Post subject:

I have a 94B and it is one of the best horns I have owned.. and I have owned and played many. Mine has the Najoom leadpipe and reversed tuning slide. I think the B bell is somewhat like a Back 43*.?. I know mine is very light. Maybe the A bell is like a 37? The .464 bore is very nice... not hard to play at all. I herd that Kanstul may start making them again.

Later
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Martin · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:37 am Post subject:

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

I have never owned or played one, but I am interested. Are the Stamm models marked as such and are the bells marked so that they can be identified?
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DCB1 · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject:

The only thing mine says is "French Besson" on the bell and .464 right below the serial number and a #1 above the serial number and a B on the bell stem. I was told that it was a Stamm. I have tried to get in touch with Kanstul but they where busy with the NAMM I guess.
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jzztpt · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject:

I basically agree with everything Jim said. The A bell is more open and has a broader sound. The B bell just isn't as versatile to me. I guess it would be ok for small group legit stuff, but I don't do much of that. However, I don't like the .464. I tried them both initially and bought the .462. I also revisited the .464 recently. It was more open up high, and I was plastering some of the loudest double Cs I've ever played on it. But, there was so little resistance in the middle register that the response was non-existent. I couldn't get around the horn at all. In contrast, the .462 plays open, but not overly so in every register and the high notes were 90% of the .464. I think it's the most versatile horn I've ever played, and I've gotten nothing but compliments about the nice thick core to the sound. I've done brass quartet, small group jazz and lead in big bands and horn sections with it, and haven't any problems. They are built really well, too. The bell seems a little heavier to me than other horns I've played. I actually have mine for sale on here, but there seems to be this opinion that they're only worth like $400. If that's the case, I'm just not selling because it's worth way more to me than that. FYI, the bell is stamped A or B on the underside where it enters the first valve casing, but it doesn't say Stamm anywhere on it. Also, vs. a lot of other horns, you can hear yourself really well on this horn. Like when you're in the middle of a salsa band with booming bass and percussion. I tried out some other horns in that environment and was dying, but the Besson wasn't a problem. Hope that helps!

Jason

DCB1 · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject:

jzztpt,
Do you have the reversed Najoom leadpipe? Mine does well in every register.
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jzztpt · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:38 pm Post subject:

Nope. Just the standard leadpipe. I had forgotten to mention anything about leadpipes, though......

DCB1 · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:41 pm Post subject:

Maybe the Najoom pipe and reversed tuning slide has something to do with how they play. I have always liked the reversed type.
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Mark Bradley · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject:

I just happened to be talking to someone at Chuck Levin's Washington Music (honest, I don't work for these guys even though I keep bringing there name up... for good reason) and they said they have a bunch of brand new Stamm Bessons that they're selling for something like $750. Apparently they bought a truckload of them and paid cash and got them at a steal. I'd call this a major league bargain for a very fine horn. I don't know why these Bessons seem to be the Rodney Dangerfield of trumpets-- no respect. Made by Kanstul, these are top line horns all the way. Ingrid Jensen plays one too that I know of besides Marvin, so it's not exactly like these are ignored by the elite pro players.

ejaime23 · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:37 pm Post subject:

I got my Stamm Besson in yesterday, it plays great!! I'm not sure if it's new horn syndrome, but so far I'm diggin it!

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

I've got a French Besson Classic made by Kanstul that has a Najoom leadpipe and it is the model which Dennis Najoom was supposedly involved in the design. .460 bore size. Lacquer finish. It looks very much like a lacquer finish Bach Strad. It has nickel silver outer tuning slides, brass inners. A standard waterkey on the main slide, an Amado on the 3rd valve slide.

I have been told by a reliable source that a main difference between a Besson Classic and a Besson Stamm is the leadpipe, with the Classic having the Najoom leadpipe. You can check that out with Donovan Bankhead from Springfield Music, who occasionally posts on this forum.

For general purpose use by someone who isn't a world class player(such as myself), I don't know how much better a horn actually needs to play than this French Besson Classic that I have. I would have to ask myself...what does a trumpet need to do that this horn doesn't or can't do? I dunno...it seems to do whatever I am able to ask of it, and it probably can do a lot more than I can call forth from of it as a player. If I spent a lot more money for a horn, I doubt that the difference/improvement would be anywhere nearly equal to the cost. It would be a very subjective thing. The French Besson Classic works and plays at least as well - actually better I think - than a Bach Strad 180-37 that I used to have.

Trptbenge · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject:

Mark,

I agree the New French Besson designed by Stamm are nice horns. I have owned three of them at one time or another.

I notice you listed Ingrid Jensen as playing one. I saw her last weekend at Western Carolina University Trumpet Festival and spent a little time talking with her about horns and mouthpieces. She plays a medium bore NY Bach that has a raw brass finish. Her mouthpiece is a Bach 7C. She might own a Stamm Besson but that's not her main horn.

Mike
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DCB1 · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject:

DaveH,
Does your have the reversed lead pipe? I am trying to figure out the difference between the Classic and Stamm and which one I have.
Thanks
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cperret · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject: My 2 cents

I'll chime in again in favor of the Besson Stamm:

My Dad and I bought a couple of Stamm 92BA's (.462 bore, A bell, squared reverse Najoom leadpipe.) We got them after they were discontinued, at a good price, thinking we'd turn around and sell them, but after playing them for a few days... we both realized we couldn't part with them!

I have to say, I think these horns are spectacular. My first impression was one of confusion: How could a horn have all the positive qualities of a large bore (big, fat tone, easy blow) and none of the typical drawbacks? It seems to be open blowing and very responsive. It's got a great upper register and slots really, really well. All the 'iffy' notes on trumpets, like A above the staff, just sing out. Plus, the horn responds quite differently to different mouthpieces; It sizzles and screams with a lead piece, but has a warm, diffuse sound with larger pieces. (This is something I've found particular to Kanstul horns... anyone else found this?)

The only thing I don't see this horn doing is fitting in to, say, an orchestral section. It doesn't have a Bach sound - that's a fact. (The weighted valve caps do darker the tone, but it still doesn't quite have that signature Bach 'core'.) But that's not what it's made for. It's great for lead, jazz soloing, commercial stuff, salsa... Just about everything! One drawback: We're still trying to buy a couple of rounded tuning slides. We only got the squared slides with the horns, and I'm anxious to see what kind of difference they make.

I've played a lot of different horns, and this is one of my favorites. Thanks for letting me share!
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Horns: Bach 37GH, Marvin Stamm French Besson 92BA, Yamaha 6310Z Flugel

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

Trptbenge · Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:50 am Post subject:

There was a lightweight version of the New French Besson that had a reverse leadpipe. The regular weight had the standard leadpipe.

Mike
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DCB1 · Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:11 am Post subject:

Maybe mine is the light weight version.... it is very light indeed... nothing like a Bach (thank goodness

).
Mine has a #1 over the serial number (.464 under)... anyone have any idea what it means?

Thanks
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etorres16 · Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject:

Wow, so much info! thanks everyone for chiming in on your experience with these horns! I was looking to try one out from WWBW! since the price fits my budget, and since they are on closeout from there. We shall see! Thanks.