CG Mouthpiece History

[John Mohan]

The following is a bit of correspondence that took place between me and another trumpet player that provides a bit of historical information on the development of Claude Gordon’s various mouthpiece designs:

Hi John,

Thanks for your kind reply and information. And yes, you have my permission to post my questions.

Best Wishes,
Paul Nelson - Horn of Praise

P.S. After I hit the send button on this e-mail I'm going directly to the Kanstul Comparator!!!


--- John and Anne <SaxyTrumpet@compuserve.com> wrote:

Hi Paul,

Many of the Drums Corps do have their players playing the CG3 mouthpiece.

I don't believe that Claude's inspiration for his "CG Personal" was based on the Heim #1. The person who wrote that on the Herald forum based his belief on an article he read that Claude wrote. He was nice enough to send a copy of the article to me and upon reading it, it was clear to me that it had been misinterpreted. In the article, concerning mouthpieces, Claude wrote:

"I was playing on a so-called high-note
mouthpiece which was blocking every effort
to improve. He said, "Let me see that
mouthpiece and then stated, "you'd better get
rid of that and learn on a sensible mouthpiece."
The next lesson (like so many students) I still had it.
Clarke said, "Give me that mouthpiece" and promptly
threw it out the window. He then rummaged into a
drawer and handed me a mouthpiece and said, "Here
play this." Believe me, I never questioned him. (It
was a Heim #1) I played this for years. I eventually
went to a cup and backbore like Clarke and that is the
size I play to this day. He explained, "the search
for a mouthpiece is the beginning of the end.""

So, Claude did play the Heim, but then switched later to the mouthpiece that I believe was eventually marketed by Benge as the "Benge Gordon Model". Later, Benge introduced different rim sizes (corresponding to popular Bach rim sizes) called the CG1, CG3, CG5 CG7 and CG10. And then even later, Claude came out with the "CG Personal", which is very similar in size to an old New York Bach 7 (not 7C), with more V-Shaping to the cup and a big throat and backbore.

Now, on to your other questions concerning the backbores and throats:

The backbore and throat on the "CG Personal" are both a bit bigger than on the CG3. The CG Personal has a 22 throat and the CG3 has either a 23 or a 24 Throat (Patty Gordon's CG Website says it's a 23 while Claude told me it was a 24. The manufacturer also says it's a 24).

The CG3's backbore, while not as big as a CG Personal, is still pretty open. Probably about the size of a Schmidt backbore (the Bach number 7 backbore) or maybe even a little bigger. Also, the rim is a bit more rounded on the CG mouthpieces (both) the on typical Bachs, with a less sharp inner edge.

The cup of the CG Personal is more V-Shaped then the CG3 and quite a bit deeper. Go to the Kanstul Website Mouthpiece Comparator to see the differences. Both the CG Personal and the CG3 are there, along with all the Bachs, Schilkes, and some others, too:

http://www.kanstul.net/mpcJN/Compare/CompareIE.HTM

With your permission, I would like to send this off to TPIN and the Trumpet Herald, as I think the questions you posed (and hopefully my answers) are valid for anyone interested.

Well, that's all for now. Hope this all helps.

Sincerely,

John Mohan


> Message text written by Paul Nelson
> >
> >Hi John,
> >
> >I have read, with great interest, the information on
> >the TH Forum regarding the Claude Gordon Mouthpieces:
> >
> >1) That Claude's inspiration was the Heim #1.
> >
> >2) That many Drum Corps require their lead players, or
> >entire sections, to play Claude's mouthpieces.
> >
> >Here's my questions John!!!
> >
> >1) Are the throat and backbore of the CG Personal and
> >CG-3 identical? Is the only difference the inner cup
> >diameter (a 7 compared to a 3)?
> >
> >Thanks for your time. I hope you are doing well.
> >
> >Paul Nelson - Horn of Praise
> <
>


Well, that's the end of it! The only thing I want to add is that Claude's CG series of mouthpieces were made in cup-diameters corresponding to the Bach mouthpieces, but they differed from typical run-of-the-mill Bachs in:

1) Consistancy and Quality

2) The rims were a bit narrower and more rounded than the Bachs with less sharp inner edges (way more comfortable to play on for long hours).

3) The Cups were slightly more "V-Shaped" in design - they began reducing in diameter right off the Rim (as in a "V"), rather than dropping straight down and then coming in (as in a "U").

4) They had (have) bigger Throats and bigger Backbores than modern Bachs.

And that's all, folks!

Sincerely,

John Mohan

[PH]

I had never seen or heard of any of these CG mouthpieces. I am just finishing up two weeks of Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops. Of the approximately 100 trumpet students, two were playing these CG mouthpieces. Both of these guys had absolutely fantastic sounds, great flexibility and more than adequate range. None of us on the trumpet faculty had ever seen or heard of these mouthpieces (is that because we are all east coast or midwesterners?). I thought they were probably rare and relatively ancient. Then, suddenly this post from herr Mohan appears. Fascinating.

John, thanks for continuing to inform and delight!

[pair of kings]

The CG 3 and the CG personal are both stock mouthpieces made by Kanstul and retail for $40. The other sizes are $65.
I am hooked on the CG 3 - no limits with this one. and no more drilling.

[John Mohan]

[pfrank]

Thanks! I'm bookmarking it. This topic is so timely!
I've been mentioning finding a replacement for my ancient CG 3 in the "mouthpieces" thread today. So far, the Stork 3 is the closest, and the Stomvi 3C a close second. The Stork is kinda V shaped also. They both have the narrower feeling rims, similar to the CG series. In 1978 in Massachusetts, I found a CG 3, but for the life of me, I don't remember where! I Was using the CG tech. studies book at the time and playing a Benge MLP, which that CG mp seemed well balanced for.