John Robertson

[MPWall1]

Mr. Adam told me about John Robertson, and I have a tape of a record (with skips) of him playing. Does anyone know where I could find out more about him or find recordings? He's incredible. I heard that he was Doc's sound model.

Michael
_________________
Michael Patrick Wall, Ed.D.
Independent Researcher in Music Education

[BRSpringer]

I have a vinyl recoding of Robertson performing the Hanson and Lovelock Concertos. (RCA VICS-1437). I don't know if it has been re issued on CD. Try All Music Guide or Amazon.
For 2 years Robertson was principal at Toronto Symphony. In 1968 he was soloist with Arthur Fiedler's tour with the New Zealand Broadcasting Corporation's Symphony Orchestra. He was Principal trumpet with the Sydney Symphony and professor of trumpet at the New South Wales State Conservatorium of Music. According to Mr. Adam, Robertson unfortunately had an alcohol problem.

Barry

[Babb9520]

Woa! I didn't know there had been other recordings of the Lovelock Concerto besides Geoffery Payne's. Makes me interested too! Also, what is the Hanson Conerto. Is that Howard Hanson, or someone different?

Charlie Babb

[BRSpringer]

Yes, it was written by Howard Hanson.

Barry

[Babb9520]

Awesome! I will have to look into it. He wrote some really great music.

Charlie Babb

[Atomlinson]

Sorry guys, not Howard Hanson but rather Raymond Hanson!

Andrew Tomlinson

[BRSpringer]

Oops! Yes, it is Raymond Hanson. So much for reading the album note carefully!

Barry

[trpthawaii]

Back in 1999 I spent a week in Sydney as a guest performer and lecturer on Bill Adam for the Australian Trumpet Guild. While there, I asked everyone about John Robertson. Several of the current top call trumpeters in Sydney and Melbourne are Robertson students. Comparing Robertson to Severinsen is a good analogy. Robertson had a very similar approach and sound concept and was equally strong. I heard stories of him warming up for symphony rehearsals and concerts by blowing through Raphael Mendez solos and, once finished with his commitment with the orchestra, he'd head into downtown Sydney and play lead trumpet for various big bands. I did go to the headquarters of the Australian Broadcasing Company and spent a day dubbing every Robertson album they had in their archives to cassette. Frankly, though he was certainly an amazing trumpeter with a huge, vibrant sound, those albums were'nt very impressive. Mostly cheesy 1960's rock and roll grooves with him playing a corny melody. The album of him doing the Lovelock was his last recording. At the time of the recording he was suffering from cancer and knew he was dying. To me, it makes that recording all the more remarkable to think he could play that strongly considering the pain and fatigue he must have been in. Brian Evans, trumpet soloist with the Sydney Oprera and president of the Australian Trumpet Guild has been working for years on getting the rights to reissue recordings of Robertson on CD. I would imagine he'll succeed one of these days.

Mark Minasian

[camelbrass]

As a young guy growing up playing in brass bands in Sydney in the late 60s and 70s we came into contact with Cliff Goodchild and Peter Walmsley both of whom played in the SSO with John Robertson (in fact Cliff's son Paul is, I believe, Associate principal) . We were all encouraged to go and listen to the Sydney Symph, particularly the Youth Concert series, and that was my first taste of orchestral playing. I've never heard the CSO or the NY Phil but these are the guys who cemented my concept of what 'trumpet' (and 'tuba' in Cliff's case) sounds like.

Regards,

Trevor

[MPWall1]

Thank you Barry and Mark! I've been trying to find out for a while what pieces Robertson was playing. If those pieces are ever reissued on CD, I'll be on them ASAP.

I knew those were recorded later in life, but I had no idea he was that sick. That's incredible.

Now I can listen to that tape in peace. Thank you.

Michael
_________________
Michael Patrick Wall, Ed.D.
Independent Researcher in Music Education

[psalt]

I studied with John Robertson in Sydney in the early 1970's. He was 64 years old then and could play a very solid Bb over high C as well as being able to play all of the Arban Characteristic Studies at a speed that defied belief. His sound was huge with a very rich quality but he did have a rather quirky vibrato that was not to everyone's taste.
Mr.Robertson played a Giardinelli 1C mouthpiece and a pair of Selmer radial valve trumpets in Bb and C.
His approach to teaching was to play throughout your lesson and I can remember one lesson where I didn't play at all.
He was a great guy, full of personality, a practice maniac and to my knowledge didn't have a drinking problem at all.
Peter Salt

[trpthawaii]

Please tell us more! What did he teach, what did he practice? Some have wondered whether he influenced Doc Severinsen or was he influenced by Doc. Please tell us what you know about this great player!

Mark Minasian

[psalt]

Mark, I've emailed you with some information but no, I don't think he was influenced by Doc as recordings of Doc were not available out here until the mid 1960's and Mr.Robertson had already his own distinctive style well before then.
He loved all the Arban characteristic studies and in particular no.6.
I know it sounds hard to believe but during one lesson he played it up the octave on a Selmer Bb Radial trumpet ( He loved to show off) and to my ear at the time played all the right notes, even the high Bb.
Peter Salt.

[trpthawaii]

Thanks for the information, Peter. I have no doubt Robertson could play double Bb and above. His high F's in the Lovelock sound so effortless that I'm sure he had range to spare. Here and in another forum, people try to determine if Doc was influenced by John Robertson or visa versa. I think it's safe to say they were contemporaries of each other and, though having quite similar sound concepts, were unique in their own ways.

If you ever run into Peter Kartu, Paul Panici, Norm Harris or Brian Evans, give them my best.

Mark Minasian

[grooveduke]

When I was student teaching, my cooperating teacher had this on vinyl. I assume he still has it. For me, Robertson was very key in finding that “sound.” There is a presence that comes through, even on a recording, that I hear in all the really great player's sounds.

I’ve been trying to catch up on Derek Reaban’s posts regarding sound concept. I had been living with Robertson’s recording for about a year (Mr. Adam only dubbed the Lovelock for me) when I went to see Herseth play the Hummel. When I heard that sound, something clicked. Herseth, of course doesn’t sound exactly like Robertson, and the Hummel is stylistically way far from the Lovelock. But, I think it was that diversity that highlighted that “core” of sound which was the same. For the longest time, I walked around hearing that “core”.

It had been much harder to hear on recordings (for me, anyway). I attribute that to the coloration of mics, speakers, headphones and the ability to change the EQ at many points in the recording/playback process and so on. After that experience, I found that my mind was “filling in” that sound on other recordings.

I have an Australian friend who went home for Christmas around that time, and got all the Robertson recordings on tape. (Even those cheesey, Muzak style things.) I love ‘em all! WOW what a sound.


Edit- Maybe a better word would be "zeroing in" rather than filling in. I was better able to zero in on that core sound on recordings.
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Check out my loveletter to Rhythm & Blues:
Heavy Mariner

[dedalus78]

If you like John Robertson (or 'Robbo') you should check out Geoffrey Payne's playing. Geoff played in the SSO in the late 70's but Robbo had already died. Many people would consider Geoff Robbo's successor, however. Geoff has recorded the Lovelock on a disc with Tomasi, Arutunian and Richard Mills' concerti. He has also just released a disc of all Mendez stuff with the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra which has some extraordinairy playing on it. I played these sessions and was flabbergasted that he could play those charts, all day, for 8 days (two four day blocks), without missing a note. Really. The only times we took second takes were when the orchestra messed up. You can get the disc online through ABC classics.
TW

[camelbrass]

Thanks for the 'heads up'. I'll get my mum to order it and send it over to me.

Regards,


Trevor

[agmott]

Robertson was brought to Australia to permanently reside by trumpeter George Dobson in 1936 to open at the palatial Sydney Trocadero, George Street. Though Robertson was no jazz player, he joined a brass section of 3 trumpets and two trombones. It was regarded as the greatest aggregation of talent ever formed to that point of hot young players: Buescher instruments all gold-plated and presented to the band as endorsements (about 35 horns in all). One of their numbers had each musician playing some novelty trick... Robbo's gimmick was to hold a high C for 16 bars revolving the trumpet on his lips, while the band played chords underneath. Apparently all the Sydney musicians would crowd in to see him do this act - couldn't believe the lack of mpc pressure. And George commented later about these days saying each night he (still seated) would be covered in 'a fine spray of spittle as Robbie (standing) went into act'! George was lead in the section, but the arrangers were writing John up to high As even in 1936. Remarkable.
John was rather fanatical about never allowing anyone to pick up his inst case. John's widow handed his trumpet to George to carry at the former's funeral as a mark of respect between the two. This was about 1974. I still have a couple of trumpet study books by David Zauder which were signed to George from John in '74.
AM

[grooveduke]

In the intervening years since my last post on this topic, I have acquired almost everything he recorded. 2 LPs: Concertos for Trumpet (RCA LSB 4005), Sugar 'N' Spice (RCA RPLS-3415), and 1 extended Play 45: Spanish Gypsy Dance (RCA RPX-1141) all pressed in Australia or New Zealand, as well as 1 single The Post Horn/the Bullfighter (RCA 57-3331)[I think] pressed in Canada. Also, Since I've remained in close contact with my cooperating teacher from my student teaching days, when he retired and got rid of his collection of LPs he graciously gave me his copy of New Concertos for Trumpet (RCA VICS-1437) which is the American pressing of the Hanson and Lovelock recordings.

When my mind drifts away from the sound, any of these albums can be used to help get it back in my ear.
_________________
Check out my loveletter to Rhythm & Blues:
Heavy Mariner

[Derek Reaban]