| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
botula
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 739
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:26 am Post subject: |
 |
|
The only thing that really bothered me in the R/P forum is when people would make comments like:
"Or you can post like a liberal and just make wild statements and ignore it when proven wrong. Who needs research!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ward42
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 1005
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| botula wrote: | The only thing that really bothered me in the R/P forum is when people would make comments like:
"Or you can post like a liberal and just make wild statements and ignore it when proven wrong. Who needs research!" |
It should bother you that it was true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ward42 wrote: | | botula wrote: | The only thing that really bothered me in the R/P forum is when people would make comments like:
"Or you can post like a liberal and just make wild statements and ignore it when proven wrong. Who needs research!" |
It should bother you that it was true. |
There was a lot of baiting going on towards the end of R&P where a very controversial statement would be posted in an apparent attempt to bait the other side into a frenzy.
Often these statements were quickly disproven, and then yet another one would pop up.
From my own admittedly biased viewpoint, actually we all have biased viewpoints, it appeared that the majority of these posts were posted by someone with a liberal viewpoint about a conservative position. But they were not limited to that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
plp
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 7023
Location: South Alabama
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
OK, I'll admit it... I miss the R and P site. As another poster pointed out, even as bad as it got, there were still some intelligent arguments made from time to time. I personally did not agree with a lot of what some people said, but they made good arguments and I had to respect that.
There are 2 other websites I follow that have R and P sections, and TH far and away had the best. The others are just full of hatespeak or mutual admiration divided along party lines, with no real exchange of ideas. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonySwartz
Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2002
Posts: 487
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think the first word in the site's name shows why there isn't too much of a need for the R&P forum. Unless the politics involves Getzen vs. Bach, which then goes in the Horns section.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blasticore
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 3045
Location: Orlando, FL
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TonySwartz wrote: | | Unless the politics involves Getzen vs. Bach, which then goes in the Horns section. |
Even then, things can get pretty bloody. 
_________________
Chris King
http://www.cktrumpet.com
http://www.ckbrassworks.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, just don't mention ZeuS or it'll be a veritable bloodbath, right?
_________________
Puttin’ On The Ritz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scootsky
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 439
Location: Fort Worth
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject: Yes ... |
|
|
I'll bite.
Hillary in 2008!!!
-GS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SinfonianTrumpeter
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Yes ... |
|
|
| Scootsky wrote: | I'll bite.
Hillary in 2008!!!
-GS |
ewwwww..i'm all for a woman being pres as long as it's not THAT woman....ewwwwww |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Yes ... |
|
|
| SinfonianTrumpeter wrote: | | Scootsky wrote: | I'll bite.
Hillary in 2008!!!
-GS |
ewwwww..i'm all for a woman being pres as long as it's not THAT woman....ewwwwww |
Why shouldn't she get another term as president? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RBtrumpet08
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 3519
Location: Chillicothe, OH
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hehehe i was at a campout once and i was talking with one of the adults that likes to joke around. he said he had a real good idea for an eagle project... the assasination of hillary. long lasting and good for everyone!
I'm just kidding! I would never even think of doing that.[/u]
_________________
"Music is a combination of logic and emotion that together express more than either could possibly express alone." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RBtrumpet08 wrote: | | hehehe i was at a campout once and i was talking with one of the adults that likes to joke around. he said he had a real good idea for an eagle project... the assasination of hillary. long lasting and good for everyone! |
Not cool, man. Even though I think Hillary is the embodiment of a quote by Thomas Sowell (just today):
"The net result was that African leaders [in the 1960's & 1970's], full of confidence because of their Western education and the adulation of the Western intelligentsia, made their people guinea pigs for half-baked theories that had contributed nothing to the rise of the West and had contributed much to its social degeneration." http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell071305.asp
No question she's a great source of terrible ideas for society, and mankind as a whole, but to laugh at the assassination of anyone who's name isn't Bin Laden or Hussein, is really out of place here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpetmike
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 11315
Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The assassination of ANYBODY is not a good topic for discussion.
If you start killing as well, you are lowering yourself to their level. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| trumpetmike wrote: | The assassination of ANYBODY is not a good topic for discussion.
If you start killing as well, you are lowering yourself to their level. |
Hmmm.....interesting viewpoint. Good luck maintaining it while simultaneously combatting the budding terrorist problem you have right there in your own back yard. Remember, the Radical Islamists in your midst have declared Britain no longer qualifies for their "blanket of protection" or whatever their extortionistic phrase is.
It's a big jump from Hillary to Bin Laden. The only way to effectively deal with terrorism is to rid the world of terrorists - by any means necessary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpetmike
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 11315
Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you were to kill someone, there would be recrimination - much as the West have bigger guns and more troops, the forces of terrorism have fanaticism on their side - they would eventually retaliate in ways that would be more devastating to us than our attacks would be on them, because I don't think our governments (however provoked or encouraged) could contemplate wiping out an entire race, civilisation or culture because of the actions of a few, whilst there would be some fanatics on that side that could (and would) contemplate such a deed.
If last Thursday had been designed to kill a large number of people, they stuffed up.
It was, I believe, a message that we should fear them - that is what they want. www.werenotafraid.com is our response. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ohanapecosh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 2133
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TM are you suggesting that the Brits do nothing? because the terrorist could invoke greater damage and wrath later? If a criminal killed a family member and demanded that the killings would stop as long as you divorced yourself from a very long standing relationship, you'd be fine with that? You'd let someone dictate your life like that for you?
What if someone said "associating with trumpet players is EVIL and if you don't stop, then some will die" and "to make our point, here's a demonstration of our resolve" and an entire section died in an explosion. would it be fine to roll over and say, "Oops, no more trumpet playing."?
Or did I misunderstand what you were trying to say about how to deal with terrorist? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| trumpetmike wrote: | If you were to kill someone, there would be recrimination - much as the West have bigger guns and more troops, the forces of terrorism have fanaticism on their side - they would eventually retaliate in ways that would be more devastating to us than our attacks would be on them, because I don't think our governments (however provoked or encouraged) could contemplate wiping out an entire race, civilisation or culture because of the actions of a few, whilst there would be some fanatics on that side that could (and would) contemplate such a deed.
If last Thursday had been designed to kill a large number of people, they stuffed up.
It was, I believe, a message that we should fear them - that is what they want. www.werenotafraid.com is our response. |
While your response could in no way be considered "Churchillian" (probably the single greatest man of the 20th century), I do respect you for having the honesty to say what you really believe.
Daniel Pipes had this to say:
"Yesterday's explosions mark the end of the "covenant of security." Let's hope they also mark the end of an era of innocence, and that British authorities now begin to preempt terrorism rather than wait to become its victims." http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0705/pipes2005_07_08.php3
My fear is that this "era of innocence" still exists for too many UK'ers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpetmike
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 11315
Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There us a difference between inaction and retaliation in kind.
What I find hardest to comprehend are the calls for mass slaughter of Muslims. The Muslim teaching DOES NOT condone terrorist actions, whatever the media might suggest. Killing is wrong, according to their belief system.
What is needed is action to prevent the radical elements of ANY religion and ANY race. What this action is, I am afraid I am not enough of thinker to come up with, but I do not believe that further murder is the way forward. I wish I knew all the answers.
If you are trying to prove to the terrorist minority that things can be achieved without the need for killing (which I would hope is what people are aiming for), if we kill them, are we sending the right message? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| trumpetmike wrote: | | What I find hardest to comprehend are the calls for mass slaughter of Muslims. |
You're right, of course. I haven't heard the calls for mass slaughter (wiping out Iran or Syria, for example), but that WOULD be a heinous "retaliation in kind".
| trumpetmike wrote: | | The Muslim teaching DOES NOT condone terrorist actions, whatever the media might suggest. Killing is wrong, according to their belief system. |
All I can say is EVERY Muslim extremist (terrorist, whatever) disagrees with your statement. And those are the ones who will take your family, your friends, on to the next world without blinking an eye. To not acknowledge this fact is to be rather naively optimistic.
| trumpetmike wrote: | | ......if we kill them, are we sending the right message? |
Yeah, maybe "Crime doesn't pay"? It's a two fold form of behaviour modification: The moderate terrorists see the consequences, and think twice; the radicals, well, at least you've taken them out - nothing will deter them. And this "We're not Afraid" is just a sign of "Western weakness" to them.
Earlier, I should have said "My fear is that this "era of innocence" still exists for too many Westerners" in general, because too many of us over here in the states are also living under the delusion that these people can be reasoned-with as well.
As far as behaviour modification, Mark Twain had it right: We want the terriorists to feel enough of the consequece of their actions to "be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again - and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| trumpetmike wrote: | | The Muslim teaching DOES NOT condone terrorist actions, whatever the media might suggest. Killing is wrong, according to their belief system. |
When I read the following quote this morning, it reminded me of your words above - words we hear ad nauseum - to make excuses for the clear genesis of terrorism today:
"As Brits stiffen their upper lips and politicians hustle to reiterate that Islam is not the problem, cognitive dissonance grips the planet. If Islam is not the problem, what is? And are we not inviting self-defeat by refusing to recognize that Islam is at least part of the problem?"
http://jewishworldreview.com/kathleen/parker071505.php3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
