DB

[Nicholas Dyson]

_________________
Nicholas Dyson
Ottawa, Canada

[Emb_Enh]

Maynard Ferguson says.....

"I tell everyone, young and old alike," he said, "to go out and get a couple of books on Hatha Yoga, and read the parts about breath, or prana. The Indians call prana 'the life force,' and sometimes we forget that if we weren't breathing, we'd be dead.

There's nothing superstrong about my lip, but there is about my range and stamina.
That comes from my breathing."

To aid in this coordination, Ferguson offers students various body and lip positions, which combined with the proper air stream aid in producing desired high notes.

His own daily practice regime varies from reading exercises to playing along with records, and his pre-concert warm up is surprisingly brief. "I'll hit a few lip trills," the man famed for his version of Gonna Fly Now, from the movie Rocky, indicated, "maybe a few slurs.

While I don't practice upper register, I might hit one high note - one super high note that is.

But what I want is my air and coordination more than my lip.

This coordination allows you to play delicately as well as powerfully. The thing is, we all have this coordination inside us, we just don't know how to teach it."

http://maynard.ferguson.net/changes.html
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[Emb_Enh]

Bill Adam says...

Now the taking of the breath, of course, is one important facet, and we must remember that we have to remain very relaxed. If we have to muster strength to get our air in, we're getting into the area of strife, because tension sets in.

Any time we have tension in our system we are running into problems getting that air out.

Now we shall go on to the embouchure. I am convinced that the most workable embouchure is one that has the area behind the mouthpiece in a state of resilience and quite relaxed.

At the mouth area outside the corners of the mouth there is firmness, but not a real tightness, and this feels like a warm tension. The trumpet muscles, or the buccinator muscles, are the muscles we utilize when we are getting ready to spit. The muscles should form a passageway for the air to be accelerated through the lips and through the horn.

If we can retain the resilience and relaxation of the embouchure, we make it possible for our air to get through the lips and the horn without too many restrictions. The more we can cut down on the resistance of the air stream, the better the tone will be, and also the easier the horn will play.


http://alaike.lcc.hawaii.edu/Minasian/adam.trpt.html
_________________
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[Emb_Enh]

James Morrison says...

Recovery after a performance is not really a problem because as I make sure I don’t kill myself in the first place.

I would guess that the main thing that needs recovery after your performance is your lips – this means that they are doing too much of the work.

The main thing to think about when playing is AIR, not embouchure.

The delivery of huge amounts of air under pressure is what makes that big sound that we all want and gives you plenty of high chops without running out of technique half way through a gig.

You can't deliver air like that if you are tense, so you have to take in the breath in such a way that you stay relaxed and then "push" the air out with increasing force as you go up.


REMEMBER, start relaxed, usually when people take a "big" breath they tense their muscles (especially in the upper body) and raise their shoulders etc. You must remain very loose if you are to get a really good breath and then gradually increase the "pressure" as you use the air.


The best way to feel what this is like is to blow all the air out of your lungs and then wait a few seconds until you really feel that you "need" air. Then just relax - you will get the deepest most relaxed breath you have ever had, this is the way it should feel every time you take a breath to play.


If you start playing this way you should very soon increase your RANGE and ENDURANCE.

The extra air control you'll have will make available to you a more "accelerated" airstream that allows you to do less work with your lips.

http://www.jamesmorrison.com.au/faq/faq-trumpet.html
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[Emb_Enh]

Charles Decker, Trumpet Professor
Tennessee Technological University


Higher pitches or frequencies are the result of faster vibrations.

Faster vibrations will occur only if air is moved more rapidly through a smaller aperture. A smaller aperture is created by setting firm corners and puckering the center of the lips slightly inward to compress the size of the aperture.

To produce a sound an octave higher, the frequency must double, and this requires significant air energy.

Many trumpeters would benefit significantly from practicing exhalation exercises that focus on moving the air flow rapidly using the strong abdominal muscles to comfortably, but energetically propel the air.

Leave the instrument in the case when you do this; it is a breathing exercise, not a playing exercise. Remember the two key words here -fast and firm. The faster the air flow, the firmer the corners.

http://plato.ess.tntech.edu/music/trumpet/hi-notes.html
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[Emb_Enh]

Vincent DiMartino writes...

To me, the embouchure is more than just lips or face muscles. It is the balance between the supported air column, the muscles of the lips and the tongue position.

http://www.petrouska.com/dimartin.htm
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[Emb_Enh]

Bill Knevitt says....

..do all you can to strengthen your lip, and when it becomes as strong enough to pull a freight train, you will find to your dismay that it will not help you play high notes.

It is the frequency of the lip vibration that causes you to play a high note, and this frequency is due to factors FAR more important than the strength of the lip.

Do you need big muscles in order to play the trumpet well? OF COURSE NOT!

Do the BLOWING muscles have to be well developed? THEY SURE DO!

I refer you to pages 16/17 of "Brass playing is no harder than deep breathing" by Claude Gordon.

Herbert LClarke the greatest authority of all time. In his book "Setting Up Drills", he identified 7 basic physical elements that must be developed in order to play correctly.

And WIND POWER is the most important of all.

These principles are the same ones used to produce every note on the horn, not just high notes. High notes are inevitable if practiced correctly.
_________________
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[Emb_Enh]

Jim Manley says...

I was lucky enough along the way to get some advice from Lin Biviano, Cat Anderson, Roger Ingram and the teacher that really put a light on things, Bobby Shew. If you ever get a chance to hear him play make the trip. If you ever get a chance to take a lesson with him-do it! Some players have a natural ability to play the trumpet easily - the are few and far between. The rest of us fall into the category of having to learn to play.

The best advice I can give is to play as relaxed as you can and don't fight the resistance of your horn (or the notes).

Open up and let the air do the work.

Of the player I have seen who come through St. Louis to take a lesson there is usually way too much tension in their playing and they overblow the horn.

There is a fine balance between the air you use and the resistance of any given note.

http://maynard.ferguson.net/jimmanley.htm
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[_bugleboy]

Charles Decker, Trumpet Professor, Tennessee Technological University, has this to say about the trumpet player's embouchure.

Consistent upper register control is a result of stabilizing an embouchure formation, placing the mouthpiece in a reasonable vertical and horizontal position, and moving the air stream efficiently.

1. Embouchure formation and firmness requires the chin to be slightly pointed down and forward which aligns the upper and lower teeth, creating a flat surface on which to rest the mouthpiece and about an eighth of an inch gap between the teeth for the air stream to pass.

2. The corners of the mouth are then contracted or firmed and the lips slightly rolled inward towards the teeth using the labial consonant "m".

3. The setting or position for the corners of the mouth is achieved by pronouncing the word "dim" which avoids stretching the tissue as in a smile or unnecessarily compressing it as with pursed lips.

4. If chin placement and muscular firmness are set, then the red tissue for both lips is equally exposed, and a U-shaped flat area is visible on the chin immediately below the lower lip. These aspects combined will produce a clearly apparent oval-shaped muscular outline around the entire mouth.

An embouchure formed this way will provide a flat, firm base on which the mouthpiece can be positioned.

************ Determining vertical and horizontal mouthpiece placement is relatively easy. ********
5. Set the mouthpiece so the opening of the lips, the aperture, falls within the center third of the cup diameter. Placing the mouthpiece too high or low, causing the aperture to be positioned in the top or bottom third of the cup diameter, will limit the ability of one of the lips to response (sic) freely as there will be too much rim contact.

6. The horizontal placement should be centered between the corners,

6a. but individuals can shift the mouthpiece slightly away from a perfectly centered position to accommodate variations in tooth formation. Very few performers use a perfectly centered horizontal placement,

6b. however, extremely off-center horizontal positioning of the mouthpiece will cause problems.


CR: Anyone care to follow Prof. Decker's advice.

Prof. Decker goes on to say,

CD: Higher pitches or frequencies are the result of faster vibrations.

CR: TRUE.

CD: Faster vibrations will occur only if air is moved more rapidly through a smaller aperture.

CR: FALSE. I, and many others, can play high notes and still have a slow moving airstream. I do this when I want to play high notes softly.

So much for the brass pedagogy at Tennessee Technological University.

[Emb_Enh]

"Information sharing is important because a group member's success or failure in sharing unique information that he or she alone possesses can have important impacts on the group's success.

My research on the subject of group information sharing builds on the work by Stasser and colleagues (Stasser & Titus, 1985, 1987, Stasser, Taylor, & Hanna, 1989, Stasser, 1992) which examined various factors that impact on group information sharing performance. "

Brian E. Mennecke
East Carolina University
-----------------------------------------------------

I too believe that information sharing is important and does not have to necessarily have to be commented on if you are not in agreement all the time.

It is important for students of any subject to receive as much information as possible so as to make their own valued judgements.

Whether one personally chooses to believe information provided or not is irrelevant. It may be applicable and/or helpful to someone else at their particular stage/style of development or progress

...Let us hope so....

---------------------------------------------------

Charles Decker

Mr.Decker holds a Bachelor of Music degree in music education from Eastman School of Music, where he was a student of Sidney Mear, a three-year member of the famous Eastman Wind Ensemble, principal trumpet of the conservatory's premiere orchestra, the Eastman Philharmonia, and performed with the Rochester Philharmonic.

Following graduation, he became solo cornet and trumpet soloist with the U.S. Army Field Band of Washington, D.C., which toured the United States, Canada, and Central and South America.

After discharge, he received a fellowship to the Berkshire Music Center (Tanglewood), summer home of the Boston Symphony, where he studied in master classes with....

..... Armando Ghitalla and Roger Voisin.

He received a Master of Music degree in trumpet performance from Northwestern University where he studied with....

... Vincent Cichowicz

Mr.Decker holds a Doctor of Musical Arts degree in trumpet performance from the University of Texas where he studied with....

... Raymond Crisara.

During his two years as doctoral candidate, he performed with the University of Texas Faculty Brass Quintet and the only brass soloist to perform with the University Orchestra.

He has been a member of the Colorado Philharmonic, Berkshire Music Center Orchestra, Austin Symphony, and principal trumpet of the Knoxville Symphony Orchestra.

Appointed to Tennessee Tech's faculty in 1981, he is first trumpet of the Bryan Symphony Orchestra, TTU's professional orchestra, and appears often as a recitalist and soloist with university ensembles.

As first trumpet and musical director of the faculty Brass Arts Chamber Quintet, he has recorded two compact discs and performed with the group in four nationally distributed public television concert specials. He recently recorded a university funded album of recital music for trumpet and piano.

In various roles as a clinician, performer, conductor, and arranger, he has appeared at major music conferences in 13 states and International Trumpet Guild Conferences.

He has written articles for the Instrumentalist, Tennessee Musician, International Trumpet Guild Journal, NACWPI Journal, BD Guide and his published 17 works with Encore Music, Medici Music Press, and Kendor Music have sold more than 10,000 copies.

His arrangements and compositions have been performed by students and professionals in the United States, Europe, and Russia.

As director of the Tennessee Tech University Trumpet Ensemble, he is a leading figure in the development of music for trumpet ensembles of more than five parts.

Works created for the TTU Trumpet Ensemble have been performed by professionals at national and international trumpet conferences.

More than 70 works have been premiered by the group giving it a repertoire which spans from the Renaissance through the 20th century, and includes jazz and pop arrangements.

The ensemble has performed at universities, conferences, and competitions, and is the first trumpet ensemble to perform a complete concert at the internationally famous Streitweiser Trumpet Museum.

He is the founder and coordinator for the annual Tennessee Trumpet Competition and Trumpet Seminar held at TTU and has been the trumpet instructor for the Tennessee Governor's School for the Arts for three summers.

TTU undergraduate trumpet students have competed successfully at the national level, been awarded major scholarships to summer music festivals, become successful educators, attended graduate music schools as scholarship students, and performed professionally.
_________________
Regards, Roddy o-iii RoddyTpt@aol.com

"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[phrenetic trumpet]

-----------------------------------------------------------------
CR:
....Also, by this logic (The less air you have to use, the worse you will sound) it would follow that if you fill your lungs and then start to play a passage, you will sound increasingly worse as you use up your air. But this is not the case at all. It is very normal to sound the same from the beginning of a phrase to the end of it, and NOT sound continually worse as the air is used up....
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone else may be saying "duh", but to me, this is a great insight. Anyone who has ever nearly hyperventilated during a performance should take note. Don't take in way more air than you need.

Regards,
Brian

[histrumpet]

Brian,
As you read you will find that Charly has alot of insight to topics that he posts on. As usual he is right this time too. Anyone can say "Maynard says......" or run down a rather exhaustive list of what players say works for them. If yoga breathing is what makes playing trumpet possible then everyone who does yoga can play trumpet in the upper register from day one. This is assuming that they breath properly from yoga exercises. Doesn't make sense to me. Chicken little says the sky is falling, is it? Probably not, just because the chicken says it does not make it a fact. The one thing that may be falling is some of these players pitch center as the lips thin out in the upper register and no amount of air can fix that, just playing with an efficient embouchure.

[trumpetteacher1]

The same pattern keeps repeating itself.

A few posters continue to make long, loooong posts which are almost entirely quotes from other people. Some of the quotes are amazingly one-sided, or simply ridiculous. If the (long) quotes are challenged, the standard response is, "I'm just sharing information. Information is important so people can make up their own mind about things. Whether you choose to believe this information is irrelevant. Your commentary on my information is not appreciated."

My response to those who continually do this is,

1. Information doesn't imply intelligence. More information is not better. Better information is better.

2. The pedigree of the person quoted is the only thing that is truly irrelevant. What's more important is the idea being conveyed. For example, it's common for great players to have confusion about trumpet mechanics. This has been revealed over and over again. It's wonderful to respect the player as a person or performer, but giving credibility to everything they say is just wrong headed, a kind of teen magazine celebrity worship. Next week we'll be reading what Maynard thinks about brain surgery.

3. The "information" presented through the quotes always seems to be slanted in one direction. Therefore, it is not "merely useful information," but it is a thinly disguised point of view. If so, why can't the posters stand on their own feet and explain the point in their own words? Why do they constantly hide behind the words of others, or whine that is simply information? This really gets old.

4. If information is so important, what about the information provided by a challenge to the quote? It seems to me if the original poster likes information so much, then the more, the merrier. What are they afraid of? Losing their "reputation?"

Presenting a point of view by (attempting) to disguise it as general information is simply dishonest. Using a quote to support an idea is something that everybody does from time to time. Hiding behind a quote is altogether different.

Charly Raymond is one of few posters on this board who cares enough, or has enough time, or who is thick-skinned enough to "let the air out of" some of the more vague and misleading quotes (and other posts) presented on this board. He realizes that the sheer volume of poor information, offered without any attempt at clarification, leads to even more ignorance in the trumpet community. And so, he sticks his fingers in the dike, one leak at a time.

I, for one, am happy that he cares enough to do it.

Jeff Smiley
http://www.trumpetteacher.net

[trumpetteacher1]

Hatha Yoga, as a side benefit, MAY help trumpet playing in some way. But the intent of Yoga (which means UNION), is to become one with God. Trumpet improvement is way down the list.

A good question to ask is, how many of these Yoga advocates had great chops and range BEFORE ever hearing about the Science of Breath? For example, Maynard had command of high G in middle school.

I think that all forms of Yoga are worthy of consideration. They just seem cheapened somewhat by promoting Yogic Breath as a faddish breathing method for trumpet players.

Jeff

[Emb_Enh]

"Information sharing is important because a group member's success or failure in sharing unique information that he or she alone possesses can have important impacts on the group's success.

My research on the subject of group information sharing builds on the work by Stasser and colleagues (Stasser & Titus, 1985, 1987, Stasser, Taylor, & Hanna, 1989, Stasser, 1992) which examined various factors that impact on group information sharing performance. "

Brian E. Mennecke
East Carolina University
-----------------------------------------------------

I too believe that information sharing is important and does not have to necessarily have to be commented on if you are not in agreement all the time.

It is important for students of any subject to receive as much information as possible so as to make THEIR OWN valued judgements.

Whether one personally chooses to believe information provided or not is irrelevant. It may be applicable and/or helpful to SOMEONE ELSE at their particular stage/style of development or progress.

...Let us hope so....

Not ONE person [or indeed a few] can decide what is "THE TRUTH" - due to our different physiologies one man's "truth" is another man's "FALSEhood"

Some people would like to fit everyone into neatly labelled boxes or categories, for it makes them, and their beliefs more secure.

However....

"Quite a few fine authors contradict each other regarding the proper way of playing the cornet, i.e.,, position of the mouthpiece on the lips, holding the instrument, and tonguing correctly. In consequence of these various contradictions, with many struggling players of wind instruments who live in remote parts of the country and cannot have the advantage of personal instructions, the question arises in their minds: "What is the proper position of the lips when placed on the mouthpiece!"
Many beginners, even after purchasing an instrument and instruction book, when working on the theory of the author and finding they are not making the advancement expected, become so discouraged that after playing a year or so they give it all up. Some players have a protruding upper jaw, others an undershot lower jaw; some have thick lips, others thin lips, and yet the "Book" gives only one explanation of how to play, Now I do not mean to find fault with different methods, as all of them are good in many ways. I simply wish to point out that each individual player must reason a Iittle with himself, and not take the text too literally. Remember, we are not all born alike and fashioned from the some mold!"

-- Herbert L. Clarke [1884]

---------------------------------------------------

It's ALL about sharing info is'nt it!!.........

From: baissie@yahoo.com (Steve Evans)
Sender: owner-tpin@parnassus.dana.edu
To: tpin@parnassus.dana.edu (TPIN)

TPIN...

After a very busy couple of weeks playing The Music Man plus a couple of 2
hour concerts of all marches (yikes), I finally have a moment to say THANKS
TPIN! For the first time in my life I still felt strong at the END of the
night, every night! And those high Fs at the end of 76 Trombone Ballet not to
mention the two big fat High Ds the musical director added to the end of the
Curtain Call music... (vocalists!!!) I nailed them EVERY NIGHT for 2 weeks!

That may be just another day for you pros but for the part time players like
myself, believe me, it’s a big deal! I have very little time to practice yet
the improvements I've seen in the last year in Range, Endurance, Articulation
and Accuracy are tremendous.

I owe my current playing improvements to the
advice, common sense and encouragement from TPIN folks like Roddy, Leon, and
Jeanne, some excellent books by Pops and Jeff Smiley and some personal
multiple tonguing "email lessons" from Eddie Lewis Trumpet.

In the midst of all the bickering over fine points, don’t loose your
perspective missing the big picture. You can learn something from everyone.

Without the technical insight from folks like Roddy and Pops, I wouldn't have
been able to "keep the air on" and "sing" as Leon correctly preaches.

Thanks guys and gals and thanks Michael for a GREAT resource.

...Steve

=====
http://www.virtualduets.com
baissie@virtualduets.com



_________________
Yours Roddy o-iii<O
www.R-o-d-d-y-T-r-u-m-p-e-t.cC

[ This Message was edited by: Roddyo-iii<O on 2002-08-06 03:03 ]

[dbacon]

DB

[Emb_Enh]

Will lip strength / facial muscles alone do it? - nope!

Will air alone do it? - nope!

Controlling and changing pitch is a matter of co-ordinating aperture/size, and or lip/ tension, air speed, internal compression and tongue level/oral cavity.

These variables will be used in differing combinations to differing degrees by players, with differing lip tissue.

It is up to you to find what best works for you and your set up, it's no good asking somebody else what they do, they have'nt got your physiology.

ALL METHODS WILL FAIL FOR SOMEONE!

So how can people help themselves?...read as much as they can...get lot's of lessons with as many teacher's as they can...

AND ENJOY YOURSELF IN THE PROCESS TOO...
_________________
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[Nicholas Dyson]

Histrumpet:
Just a couple of notes on what you've just said... (for ease of reading, I will respond in CAPS)


As you read you will find that Charly has alot of insight to topics that he posts on. As usual he is right this time too.

YUP, AS USUAL. CHARLY IS A VERITABLE UNENDING FONT OF CLEAR INFORMATION.

Anyone can say "Maynard says......" or run down a rather exhaustive list of what players say works for them.

YES THEY CAN. I FIND IT ANNOYING TOO, ALTHOUGH IT HAS IT'S PLACE IN SUPPORT OF ALREADY STATED IDEAS.

If yoga breathing is what makes playing trumpet possible then everyone who does yoga can play trumpet in the upper register from day one.

NEITHER RODDY OR MF SAID THIS, THIS WAS MADE UP COMPLETELY ON YOUR OWN. MF SIMPLY REFERED TO IT AS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE ATTRIBUTES TO HIS SUCCESSES.

This is assuming that they breath properly from yoga exercises.

WHO DEFINES PROPERLY HERE? PROPERLY FOR TRUMPETING? PROPERLY FOR KEEPING YOUR BODY OXYGENATED? ARE THEY ONE AND THE SAME? AGAIN, NO ONE SAID IT WAS THE BE ALL AND END ALL, MF ALONE SIMPLY REFERED TO IT AS SOMETHING THAT HE FOUND OF VALUE TO HIM.

Doesn't make sense to me.

THAT'S JUST FINE. DOESN'T HAVE TO. A LOT OF THINGS DON'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. MORE DON'T THAN DO. HOWEVER, THAT IN AND OF ITSELF DOES NOT DENOTE WHETHER OR NOT ANY INFORMATION IS FACTUAL OR UNFOUNDED.

Chicken little says the sky is falling, is it? Probably not, just because the chicken says it does not make it a fact.

ALONG WITH THAT, JUST BECAUSE IT'S A CHICKEN SAYING IT, DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT A FACT.

The one thing that may be falling is some of these players pitch center as the lips thin out in the upper register and no amount of air can fix that, just playing with an efficient embouchure.

I HAPPEN TO WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE, BOTH WITH THE STATEMENT THAT PLAYING WITH THE MOST EFFICIENT EMBOUCHURE IS THE BEST BET, AND THE COMMENTS CHARLY MADE.

AS AN ASIDE, LAST NIGHT I STUMBLED UPON THE FAMED 'ARTURO SANDOVAL' THREAD THAT TURNED INTO A RUMBLE.

I FOUND IT AMAZING THAT THAT WHOLE MESS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED WITH CLEARER AND MORE CONSTRUCTIVELY WORDED POSTS, ALL THE WAY AROUND. EXACTLY WHAT CHARLY (AND JEFF S.) ARE ALL ABOUT.

EVEN THOUGH I AGREE WITH THE FINAL THOUGHTS OF HISTRUMPETS POST HERE, IT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION THAT YOU HURT RATHER THAN HELPED YOUR (AND MINE!!!) CAUSE BY MISREPRESENTING WHAT WAS SAID BY MF, (BY WAY OF RODDY) AND THE TONE OF WHICH YOU CHOSE TO DELIVER IT IN.

AGAIN, JUST MY OPINION. PERHAPS FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
_________________
Nicholas Dyson
Ottawa, Canada

[histrumpet]

Sorry if I caused a problem for you Nick. I may have misunderstood what was posted earlier. Maynard had command of the upper register before anyone thought of Yogic breathing. The previous post seemed to use these breathing techniques as an end all solution to lack of range, by saying that Maynard uses them. I am sometimes guilty of wearing my emotions on my sleeve, I apologize. You don't have to use CAPS to reply, it's just as easy to read lower case. Thanks for you input.

[Nicholas Dyson]