Herseth Lesson Notes.

[Atomlinson]

Well, I don't appear to be getting any support for my viewpoint at present, and I have made my case.

It is possible that other members of TH might be able to shed more light on the subject in the future.


Andrew Tomlinson

[ This Message was edited by: Atomlinson on 2003-10-01 02:46 ]

[oj]

If you look at interviews with Bud (I have quite a few), if you read other people's reports, you will begin to see some of his main points about music, practicing, not doing to much analyzing, etc. etc. Perhaps you will discover one of Bud's favorite musicians, the Swedish tenor Jussi Bjorling: "Ahh ,.. his singing was out of slight, out of sight."

Here are a few reports:

From Mark Minasian:
http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/tpin/Bud_Herseth.html

From Kristin Kohler:
http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/tpin/Bud_part_2.html

From Bill Dishman:
http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/tpin/Evening_with_Bud_Herseth.html


Ole

P.S.
Timothy Kent was 4th with CSO in the period 1978 - 1996 (replaced by John Hagstrom)

[robert_white]

I seem to remember that TPIN debacle, and it centered not around the notes being authentic or not, but that Tim Kent never intended them to be dispersed. They were his personal notes, and I think his brother or something found them years later and thought they were cool and started passing them around to trumpet players, and on and on and on...

I got to work with Mr. Herseth some years ago at Music Academy of the West. He was an awesome teacher, and most of the lesson notes sound a lot like the stuff he said to me back then.

I'd be willing to bet that neither Herseth, Kent, Hagstrom, or anyone else for that matter really cares anymore that these pearls of trumpet wisdom have made the rounds. Bud is already a legendary figure and stories about what he did or said when or where will circulate for years to come. It's kind of like those famous Eugene Ormandy quotes - nobody questions whether they came from him or not because they fit an image people had in their minds of Ormandy. Studying briefly with Bud was one of the most memorable times in my own study of trumpet, and for better or worse these notes help me remember the impact he had on me.

Bob

[Atomlinson]

So it is his brother that has caused all this trouble. Brothers - who'd have them!

Andrew Tomlinson

[_Don Herman]

If we had to defend every statement with detailed references and conversation notes I think we'd all be in trouble. Andrew and trumptchad have made some good points and in a pretty civil manner. It looks to me like, though there is some question about the details, the notes are generally a valid view of Mr. Herseth's thoughts which have been published elsewhere. This was hashed out on TPIN, and I have no wish to see it done again. The result was the notes stood, and in this case I agree. I have no way of verifying all the details, but the list is a good read!

Let's move on, please! - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[Atomlinson]

Don

The trouble is, if Herseth has said what has been attributed to him "most of the list wasn't true" (i.e. he never said those things) then the "lesson notes" are a fabrication and worthless as far as being a handy digest of Herseth's pedagogy.

As general notes from a number of sources they might be very good.

So I think I'm going to keep to more reliable sources to build up a picture of Herseth's Trumpet Philosophy and Pedagogy. I might even compile my own list, but not for publication of course!

I haven't seen the TPIN material, and I don't know if Herseth's remarks have been reported on previous occasions.

Hopefully, the truth will come out eventually, it generally does.

And look at it this way. The Chicago School forum is alive and well!


Andrew Tomlinson


[ This Message was edited by: Atomlinson on 2003-10-02 14:09 ]

[_Don Herman]

Andrew:

1. If the list is truly a fabrication then it should be modified to be a list of good thoughts rather than being attributed to Mr. Herseth. I don't think that'd make it "worthless". In this case, it's difficult to speculate on the context, and exact wording of the notes. I suspect they were written after the lesson and so may paraphrase, or some things may not have been interpreted properly or completely by the author. As "notes" and not all direct quotes I think it's OK.

2. The notes were posted to TPIN a few years ago, and after the firestorm it's my recollection (others can confirm or deny; my archives were lost) that Kent confirmed the general nature of the notes and that he was annoyed that they were published without permission, not that they were wrong. This does not rule out my last lines in 1. above. OJ put them on his website; I think a final verdict of falseness I would remember and would have kept them of OJ's site.

3. Mr. Herseth has given master classes and has been interviewed numerous times by various folk, such as in the ITG Journal. Again to the best of my recollection (and now we're in trouble! ) the notes are consistent with his teachings and quoted words.

I'd love to call Mr. Herseth and ask, but I'd be too embarassed and awe-struck to stammer out the words... Nor is it the topic of conversation I'd choose for my first words with him!

I'll let you, and trumpetchad, have the last word, if you (y'all) wish, then plan to lock this down.

Onwards! - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[Atomlinson]

Let's hope Herseth now has the time and health to give many masterclasses and pass on his knowledge and experience to a wider audience.

Andrew Tomlinson

[trumpetchad]

Don-

Agreed...Let's close this book.

Whether or not Herseth said these things, they certainly are a good read, and, for a trumpet player, are nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing on that list is particularly objectionable.

I suppose this story will live on and on just as many other Herseth stories have. You'd be hard-pressed to find at least a few variations of the many Zarathustra stories with Reiner out there. Just add this one to the list!

It's been a fun discussion anyway. I echo Andrew's sentiments...let's hope that Herseth can pass on his wisdom to the next generations for years to come!

[_Don Herman]

Thanks so very much for such a graceful exit!

Back to the music - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley