Olds Cornets

dan_ostler · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:38 am Post subject: Olds Cornets

I've been experimenting with an Olds Ambassador cornet for a while, and with the Olds 7C mouthpiece that came with it, it gives me a nice change up pitch to the trumpet. Question is: going up the Olds food chain, do things get better??? I've seen a few Operas on eBay, along with a Mendez long cornet.....
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Schilke B4L
WTF (in Blue)
LeBlanc Gozzo 770A, Al Hirt 707A
Olds Mendez, Clark Terry Flugel
Old Ambassador Cornet, Trumpet
Olds Mellophonium
(Is there a pattern emerging here??)
Hanns Hainlein 1632 Replica, MF Firebird
(I guess not......)

Happy Canuck · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:15 am Post subject:

Dan, they are nice cornets, especially with the correct mouthpiece.

I've had my Opera for 40 years and it is a great horn. My latest purchase was an Olds A6 Ambassador, not the student model but a top of the line, shepherds crook beauty introduced by Olds for the UK market very close to the end of the company. http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds77/amba6s.htm I think that only about 300 were made. I was very fortunate to be able to get the mouthpiece that orginally shipped with them, the Olds 17. It looks deeper than my Sparx!

The sound of any of them will change when you use a 'trumpet' mouthpiece. If you want the true, strong, mellow cornet sound, get a Sparx from Ted!

By the way, when you want to sell your CT Flug, I'll be in line! And wasn't Vizutti great!
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Bill

Olds trumpets/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds Flugelhorn/GR leadpipe/GR Butcher 65.6FL

sparxII · Veteran Member Joined: 09 Oct 2002 Posts: 216

I can fix you up with a mp. AND a mint used Olds Recording cornet.

Ted

dan_ostler · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the thoughts! Yes Vizutti was something else. Lives in a different world from me, that's for sure. An approachable guy as well. I asked a vague question about the horn he was using, and he jumped right in taking his horn apart to show me the modifications.
_________________
Schilke B4L
WTF (in Blue)
LeBlanc Gozzo 770A, Al Hirt 707A
Olds Mendez, Clark Terry Flugel
Old Ambassador Cornet, Trumpet
Olds Mellophonium
(Is there a pattern emerging here??)
Hanns Hainlein 1632 Replica, MF Firebird
(I guess not......)

nextbrassguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 1428

DonaldWRugg · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:14 pm Post subject: Olds cornets

I won't bore you with a list of all my Olds horns (25), but my favorite OLDS players are my Mendez trumpet and a pair of '42 Super Recording cornets. I would answer the "food chain" question with a yes, the Olds cornets do get better the farther up the line you go, but just to a point. I believe as you go up from Ambassador through Special, Studio & Super they are definitely progressively better cornets. But when it comes to Recording, Opera & Mendez it's more a matter of use, taste & what feels good to the individual. They're 3 completely different horns. As for mouthpieces, don't buy one on someone else's recommendation, unless you personally see a mouthpiece specialist. I got my trumpet mouthpiece personally from Carrol Purviance, and he was a big help. (I'm old) First of all a cornet mouthpiece needs to fit your mouth, usually about the same rim diameter as what works for you on your trumpet, but even if you like the sound of cup type mouthpieces the cup should usually be a little deeper than your favorite trumpet 'piece. I find uses for both deep modified V & the more cup-shaped cornet mouthpieces, depending on whether I'm using the cornet for classic cornet sounds or using it for big, fat & sassy stuff. (The Super Recording's great for that.) Judging a mouthpiece is like judging wine. If YOU like it, it IS good!
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Don Rugg of Relic Rescue

dan_ostler · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:23 am Post subject:

Interesting............how would you describe the uper level cornets relative to each other. Getting them all in the same room would be a bit of a feat for anyone who is not a collector.

>>>>>>I won't bore you with a list of all my Olds horns (25), <<<<<< Oh go ahead anyhow! :-}
_________________
Schilke B4L
WTF (in Blue)
LeBlanc Gozzo 770A, Al Hirt 707A
Olds Mendez, Clark Terry Flugel
Old Ambassador Cornet, Trumpet
Olds Mellophonium
(Is there a pattern emerging here??)
Hanns Hainlein 1632 Replica, MF Firebird
(I guess not......)

DonaldWRugg · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:33 am Post subject: Olds cornets

I have Olds cornets in these models only: Ambassador (with & without triggers), Special, Radio (plays like a 22B Conn trumpet), Studio, Super & Super Recording. I don't have a Recording at this time & have never owned an Opera or Mendez in the cornet line. These don't come around very often, but sell for prices about equal to the Recording, which makes sense.
I have compared the 3 top models in trumpets, and the differences between them is similar, although the playability of the cornets is of course not quite the same. Besides the 1st & 3rd triggers on the Opera & Mendez compared to just a 3rd trigger on the Recording, they are totally different designed cornets. The Mendez is probalby the best for technical solo work, but also is capable of plenty of high end sizzle when pushed, which makes it also a good lead horn. If you've never seen one, they are configured very close to the Mendez trumpet, but with more conical tubing. The Operas are the largest bore cornets and do best in orchestral settings, and are capable of the most sonorous cornet sound. They also require the most wind to fill. If you like to belt out high notes & carry over the rest of the section/band with relative ease, but also tend to like it smooth, fat & sassy down lower, the Recording gives you an excellent balance of all this. It blows bigger than its physical size, and does it seemingly effortlessly. There is a certain "edge" or personality to the Recording's tone that you just don't find anywhere else. A great lead or solo horn, but can also blend in nicely with a section. Bell down = blend, bell up = you are the star! My antique Super Recordings are similar in playability but their sound is more like a cross between the original (30's) Super and the 50's Recording. They were the first to have the trademark offset middle valve of the Recording line. Hard to describe, but perhaps just a little darker or not quite as "live" as the Recording with its rose-brass bell. I guess I really sound like I'm infatuated with the Recording! It just suits a lot of the styles of playing I like to do. It would be ideal to have one each of all top 3 in both trumpets and cornets. Maybe I'll be satisfied when that happens! I didn't intentionally start out to "collect" Olds horns, just found that the ones I sold I really missed. You can't beat the build quality of these horns, and they outplay so many more expensive makes. I have a LOT of brass. They come & they go, but only certain ones have that necessary something that says, "keep me". It just so happens that most of the Olds horns turn out to be keepers. From my hammered bell "The Olds" trumpet #719 to my (late model) 60's Mendez; and from my 30's "Golden Bear" tenor trombone to my Ambassador F Alto Horn, they are all just superb players. Yes, I do have other brands of good horns I won't part with either, but Olds holds a certain "spell" over me. Perhaps it's because if I had ever grown up, it would have been at the same time most of these Olds horns came into prominence. I remember while owning my first Eldon Benge built trumpet in 1958, riding down the street to one of the two music stores in Burbank on my bike to drool over the Ambassador cornet in the window at $129.00! (My Benge was $327.88 w/case & tax) My dad wouldn't even let me consider getting a cornet back then. He had lived through the era where trumpets took over as lead instruments from cornets. No serious trumpeter would be caught dead playing a cornet, but I was always infatuated with them, thought they looked cool. Well now I guess I'm making up for what I was deprived of as a kid! Will they print a response this long?
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Don Rugg of Relic Rescue

topo3man · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:47 am Post subject:

Just a reminder that when you talk about Olds cornets you have to talk about LA olds vs Fullerton models in terms of the mouthpiece shank. The LA models require a larger mouthpiece shank than the Fullerton models. If you are going to go the custom mouthpiece route, this would not be an issue since the maker could easlily address this issue by using a flugel blank or even a blank customized for LA Olds. If you plan to try to use normal mass produced pieces, you may be better off with the Fullerton horns (which take normal cornet mouthpiece shanks). The best solution for an LA Olds (easily attainable) is Mark Curry mouthpiece using a Bach Flugel shank. You can get any of his flugel cups quickly (flugle pieces also tend to be deep V also) or custom order any of his cups on the Bach flugel blank. Bach says they will make custom pieces but forget it. I tried it once and after 6 monthes, Bach finally got Bach to me and told me I would have to wait at least another 6 months. Just be aware. it would be a shame to get a great cornet and then have to sit around for months trying to get a mouthpiece.
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1939 NY Bach Stradivarius
1948 Chicago Benge C
Bach 19037 Stradivarius
1939 Conn Cornet

DonaldWRugg · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: Olds cornets

The response from topo 3man is correct, but a clarification is in order. Olds move to Fullerton in 1955, and the large shank mouthpiece receivers were used until about September 1956. So there are some ( though not many) Fullerton cornets with the early large receiver. Now I can sleep tonight!
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Don Rugg of Relic Rescue

topo3man · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject:

Don, any idea of what serial number range to look out for in terms of those Fullertons with a possible large shank? Do you know if there are some LAs with a small shank? I know that there were many Super bells left over after the move from LA and you can get a Super with an LA bell that was made Fullerton.
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1939 NY Bach Stradivarius
1948 Chicago Benge C
Bach 19037 Stradivarius
1939 Conn Cornet

DonaldWRugg · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject:

According to Rouses Olds Central the first small shank receiver was ser. no. 189611 from Fullerton. I've never heard of an L.A. horn with a small shank, but who knows? If a Fullerton Super with a Los Angeles bell got fitted with a NOS early leadpipe that COULD have happened. It wouldn't BE an L.A. horn, but it would be marke as such. ???????.
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Don Rugg of Relic Rescue

dan_ostler · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:48 am Post subject:

Thanks for all those thoughts. I find that very specific discussions like this are really helpful, and al the information ends up in the archives for future use. Anyways, I have a line on a Mendez cornet, a little laquerly challenged, but apparently in the hands of Mendez himself at one point..........................we'll see............
_________________
Schilke B4L
WTF (in Blue)
LeBlanc Gozzo 770A, Al Hirt 707A
Olds Mendez, Clark Terry Flugel
Old Ambassador Cornet, Trumpet
Olds Mellophonium
(Is there a pattern emerging here??)
Hanns Hainlein 1632 Replica, MF Firebird
(I guess not......)

Happy Canuck · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:26 am Post subject:

Ah yes, the one at L & MQ.... given to McLintock by Mendez himself.

Not a bad price either!

When/if you get it we should have a Toronto area Olds cornet play together so each can try the other horns?!!
_________________
Bill

Olds trumpets/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds Flugelhorn/GR leadpipe/GR Butcher 65.6FL

dan_ostler · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject:

Hey, that would be fun............. I'll let you know when I'm next down.
July and August are good months to stay home up here in vacation country, so it may be the fall!! Cheers
_________________
Schilke B4L
WTF (in Blue)
LeBlanc Gozzo 770A, Al Hirt 707A
Olds Mendez, Clark Terry Flugel
Old Ambassador Cornet, Trumpet
Olds Mellophonium
(Is there a pattern emerging here??)
Hanns Hainlein 1632 Replica, MF Firebird
(I guess not......)

Happy Canuck · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject:

Look forward to it Dan! And bring the flug too!

pm with my contact info
_________________
Bill

Olds trumpets/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds Flugelhorn/GR leadpipe/GR Butcher 65.6FL

oldblow · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:37 pm Post subject:

Ah,,,,Donald Rugg,,,,now I know who is always lurking in the Olds posts on ebay while I am there!!

Welcome to the forum, and hope you have fun!

Thanks for the informative post..
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Felton (Butch) Bohannon

gmonteith · Veteran Member Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 104

I'm an adult player who's been taking lessons for 3 1/2 years now. My trumpet is a 1962 Olds Ambassador. It was a decent player from the very beginning, but when I put a Pilczuk leadpipe on it last year, it really opened up. At one time I was playing every professional level horn I could get my hands on trying to find the right one. I now feel no urgency.

I recently bid and won on eBay an Ambassador cornet, and it arrived today. Its serial number -- 39,XXX -- puts its manufacture in the late '40s or early 1950, and I couldn't believe what almost-perfect shape it was in. One tiny ding on the whole horn, almost all of the laquer intact, valves quick and fast -- with real mother of pearl -- and an original case that looks like it may have been used for a year and the horn laid to rest since then.

It came with an Olds 3 mouthpiece, which fortunately is the large shank that's needed with the horn (the mouthpiece looks brand new). I'm not crazy about the mouthpiece, but it plays better on the cornet than the Olds 3 I tried on my trumpet.

Best of all, the cornet sounds great, even if the player doesn't.

lemo · Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject:

Actually, I have an LA Olds cornet with the standard mouthpiece shank. It is serial number 1435, no model designation, extensively engraved, and very similar to my 'The Olds' cornet #33xx. Slightly smaller bore, two piece bell, and a wonderful player. Restored by Zig Kanstul to new condition, then Wayne Tanabe PVA. I know the receiver is original, as I have the matching mouthpiece. Straight sided, looks a lot different than the usual Olds mouthpiece. It plays almost identical to my medium bore 'The Olds,' maybe a little less projection but even more sensitivity and dynamic range. You can whisper on this horn, or open up if you want. Slots a little looser than a Recording or Super Recording, but not as loose as the Super cornet. Neat horn.

rftroy · Regular Member Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 82