Can't Memorize Music Anymore

[david80J]

I am 57 now. I played for 7 years in high school and in some small bands, then I quit for 35 years. Now I have been back playing for 4 years. The only songs that I seem to be able to memorize are a few songs that I played in high school. Is this unusual or not? I have played many songs at least 100 times that I play in my dining gigs but can't memorize them. I must have the music in front of me.

David Clark

[david johnson]

i'm not quick with that, either. why not memorize scales & clarkes, or simple etudes/hymns? starting that way helped me a bunch.

dj

[Don Herman rev2]

Take the music away! I rarely memorize music any more (no need), but find (like you) that with the music in fornt of me, that's what I use. I take it away and keep pluggin' on it until it's right, then randomly play it (or parts of it) again through my practice session to make sure I've "got it". If not, I'll pull out the music, play the part, and try again music-less.

I have taken to doing it in smaller doses -- play a phrase, turn over the music and repeat two or three times, then go back to the music and add the next phrase, building up gradually.

Is there a reason you need to memorize? I needed to do that on road gigs with jazz and rock groups, mainly because the leader would call a tune with 1/2 second notice, but for church it's not an issue. I use a stand even for offertories -- figure there's enough to think about, and the people care about the music, not whether there's stand in front of me. I think!

HTH - Don

I used to think a mind was a terrible thing to waste; now I think a waist is a terrible thing to mind.
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[bilboinsa]

David:

As an advanced ager myself, I find there are a LOT of things I usta could do better, and some I can't even do at all. Without fail, every one of them CAN be ressurrected with p-r-a-c-t-i-c-e. Start with a meausre...then a line...then a section...you get the drift. I think the bottom line is, when we were young and HAD to practice things--we did. Now, we have to convince ourselves that we HAVE to practice AGAIN. After all we have been through--sometimes that a hard thing to convince ourselves of, but I do believe it's true. my >02 anyway...Where did I put those keys???
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[plankowner110]

What was the original question?
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[importman]

David, My story is eerily similar to yours. 7 years in school, 28 years away, 47 years old. And I was wondering if it was just me. I can't seem to memorize anything either. In school it was no problem. Now, well, must've lost the brain cells that handle memorizing. Danny.

[shastastan]

Hi Guys. I have the same problem but was off for 50 years. I really practice way more now than I did back in high school. I asked myself the same question, "Why can't I remember any (or verly little) of the music when I can play it with no mistakes when looking at the music?" To get to the no mistakes position, I have played the piece at least 30-50 times. I remember playing this piece back in high school, "Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White" made famous by Perez Prado. I remember that piece to this day but I can't play tunes from memory that I've just played. Guess that part of my brain has retired along with some of the other things like running legs.

Stan

[david80J]

Maybe it is an age, brain cell thing but I practice a lot and have played many of the songs that I can't memorize at least 100 times. Church is not a problem except I would like to memorize a solo for funerals and weddings but instead I stick a music stand in front of me. I do dining gigs with sound trax but there are so many songs and I even have different versions to them, I have to have the music in front of me.

David Clark

[_dcstep]

Hey David,

Can you hum the songs? If so, then you can memorize them on trumpet.

Start with something like Amazing Grace and pick it out without looking at any music. Just do it. If it takes an hour, so what? Once you've done that, then move it to another key and pick it out. When you learn a song that way it'll stick with you.

Pick another song, say The Old Rugged Cross and do the same thing. It'll be easier than the first song. Just keep building on that.

Remember, hum the song all the way thru first, then start picking it out. With practice you'll get better and better.

DON'T LOOK AT THE MUSIC. Pick it out by ear.

Have fun Buddy.

Dave
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[brassbow]

with me I have ADD so memorizing is to much to focus on.
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[shastastan]

Hi Dave. I'm going to try what you suggest. It does take me awhile to "pick" tunes out of the air, but they don't seem to stick with me. I haven't tried doing them in other keys, though.

One weird thing (among many) that just started happening to me is that I can see the music score in my mind for some pieces that I've played a lot. To me this seems very different that being able to just play from the tune I hear in my mind.

Did you ever get a Taize' group going?

Stan

[david80J]

Ok, Dave:
I will attempt to memorize that one just to see if it is possible. As You know I have played it at about 8 graveside services but have had the music stand each time, hid behind a tree if possible because I am embarrassed that I can't memorize the song as I once could. Maybe it is because of the way that I have patterned myself to read music and play it. I also am terrible about getting half way through a song and forgetting the key it is in, so I miss a note which you know I can't stand to do that. So how about that, do any of you have a problem with forgetting the key that you are playing in?
David Clark

[lh]

Hi David80J,

I'd take _dcstep's suggestions one step further...

Sounds like the difficulty you are experiencing is based on not being able to retreive oft-coded information from long-term memory. It's in there somewhere, but just doesn't want to come out when told to.

Not only should you hum tunes that you play, you should sing the lyrics to these songs, and even create your own lyrics to songs that may not have them, solely for the purpose of encoding the same information several ways. Using multiple means of encoding information (the brain science people tell us) gives us more ways of retreiving it later, as it builds a denser network of neural pathways.

Now if I could just find my car keys.... I set them down here somewhere...

Regards
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[John Mohan]

[Rich G]

Hi David, I have been following your posts and can sympathize with your dilemma. I am 64, and in my case I have noticed that many mental operations have slowed down or become more difficult as I have aged. As a retired psychology teacher who has studied, taught, and conducted some research on memory, I can tell you that human memory is a very complex phenomenon. Committing information to memory ("encoding"), and "retrieval" of information from memory, may become more difficult with advancing age - but not uniformly. We may have little difficulty remembering individuals, events, names, etc. of personal experiences ("episodic memory") that happened 30 years ago, but can't remember the names of people we met last month whom we have talked with many times (this is not "short term" memory which is commonly misunderstood). Brain chemistry changes as we age, and with it come changes in memory processing. Are there other things besides music that you have difficulty memorizing; new information, particularly? For example, new phone numbers, new email addresses, the names of people you've recently met, new places, etc.? There are different memory structures and there seem to be different areas of the brain where various kinds of memory are processed and stored. For example, "procedural memory" - the memory for "procedures" repeated over and over again in our lives through simple conditioning - tend to be stored in a "lower" region of the brain, the cerebellum. This would include physical, mechanical procedures we've learned such as tieing our shoes, riding a bike, blowing into a mouthpiece, fingering the trumpet, typing, driving a car, etc. An interesting thing about procedural memory is that in case studies of individuals who have suffered severe memory loss or dysfunction, procedural memory tends to remain intact. We never forget how to tie our shoes, etc. Cognitive memory for abstract mental processes (learning language, etc.), tends to be more a function of processing in "higher" brain regions (e.g, the cerebral cortex). In my own case, I have been able to memorize transcriptions of Chet Baker and Clifford Brown solos, but if I meet a student I had 4 years ago, I may not be able to recall his/her name - even though I knew that student very well, and could recall specific events related to them that gave us both a laugh. Yet, I rarely have difficulty recalling the name of a former student I encounter whom I had in class 30 years ago. My own take is this: if I notice that I am having difficulty processing and remembering a lot of recent attempts to commit things to memory, I would see a neurologist. Getting old is no fun, but everytime I see and hear someone such as Eubie Blake who was still performing and composing at age 100, and Clark Terry, who doesn't seem to have lost a step, I realize there's still a lot to be thankful for, and to look forward to. Don't give up.

[Rich G]

[Norm]

David....Maybe the problem has to do with a lack of motivation? If you REALLY HAD TO memorize a given tune, maybe that would make a difference.

Norm

[shastastan]

To me, this is real interesting stuff. I've learned a very tiny bit more about neural pathways since my mother-in-law has Alzheimers. My understanding is that placque deposits block the pathways on an increasing scale as the disease progresses. She can remember back when she was a little girl but not what she had for lunch 10 minutes ago. So are we getting Alzheimer's? I don't know but dementia is another by-product of aging. I've heard that Alzheimer's cannot truly be diagnosed until post-mortem and is treated the same as dementia. I prefer to think of my personal memory problems as senior moments. Rich G sure has provided us with some very indepth explanations. Thanks Rich!

As John said, we now have an even greater opportunity to improve our sight reading abilities.

[trombapaul2]

Maybe your brain is just full!!

At least that's what the trombonist in my quintet claims every time I suggest
we memorize a piece or even a section of a piece so we can get out of our
chairs and away from the stands for a moment or 3. He insists he is totally
incapable of memorizing because his head is full of "necessary engineering
and flying information". He has in fact shown many times that he CAN'T
memorize so maybe there is something to the "full brain" concept (just
kidding! )

Paul
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[_dcstep]