Couesnon Flugelhorn

Voltrane · Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject:

I forgot: I was also told that the serial number at Couesnon were given "by workshop and by period".
Indofunk, this could explain thatyou could have Serial number and letter related: a guy in a workshop took care of this, another did not... and you can have horns without anything...My own C Couesnon have neither letters, nor serial number...
Marc

MikellB

I noticed at least one person has replaced his Couesnon.

How many players with Couesnon experience think it's the best?

Which other horns in the $1,500 - $2,500 range are better?

Thanks for your input.

MikellB

Flugelnut · Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:40 am Post subject:

Last week I acquired an old flugel that is the spitting image of walteriano's 126, except for the straight-through valve bloc.
Mine has the standard valve port layout, but bracing, valve caps, finger buttons, and pinky hook are all identical.
My "problem" is that the bell is stamped as follows:

Artist (in Italics)
FABRICATION FRANCAISE
F. BESSON
PARIS
MADE IN FRANCE (tiny lettering)

I did know that Couesnon purchased the French Besson company in 1957, but wasn't aware that they marketed their own horns under the Besson brand name.
The horn probably dates from the early 1960's which would make it possible.
It obviously has not lain idle over the years, but it plays like a dream.
All good things said about Couesnon flugels do apply and it is even in tune with itself (low C# and D exepted).
Has anyone ever heard of such a Besson/Couesnon flugel?
Btw: the valve casings are stamped 1, 2, and 3 on the left, the 2nd casing has a B on the right. The mouthpipe clamping ring is marked A1.
There is no serial number.
I'll try pictures later.

Flugelnut · Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:33 am Post subject:

The only way I could figure out to get you some pictures of my F. Besson (Couesnon?) flugel was to go through my daughter's business website.
Go to www.koekelijn.com, choose the English language page and click on the small purple dot at the bottom left side.
You should see 3 pictures of the old horn, your comments are welcome.
I hope the moderator doesn't throw me off the forum because of these blatantly commercial activities.

Flugelnut · Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:14 am Post subject:

Sorry, there should be no comma after www.koekelijn.com

Voltrane · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:11 am Post subject:

Hello,
Flugelnut
I found this on the net:
http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Couesnon.html%20
and specifically:
"At this same time, prior to the war (Marc:WW2), the Couesnon trumpet factory in Paris was located right next door to the F. Besson trumpet factory, where the premiere trumpets prior to World War II were made. Curiously, the Couesnon trumpets of the time look virtually identical to the F. Besson models".
May be is it the same for Flugels? A kind of business agreement to improve productivity? If this is true (I am talking about the Couesnon trumpet identical to the Besson'ones)...because I am a little suspicious regarding this page (for instance 2 obvious mistakes: Couesnon Monopole Conservatoire were not made in the 60, they already are included in the 1934 catalogue, B. Soustrot never won the 1976 Maurice Andre competition... that was created in 1979: the first French winner was Guerrier in 2000). So take this cautiously...
Regards.
Marc

Flugelnut · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:32 am Post subject:

Merci, Marc.
The Dallas Music site appears to be correct about Besson and Couesnon being neighbours at a time, though.
www.angelfire.com/music2/thecornetcompendium/manufacturers_c.html says they were located at 94 and 96 Rue dAngoulème in Paris, so they may have shared designs, especially when Besson became Couesnon's property.

Indofunk · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject:

Ok, so I finally got the French ("Couesnon") taper Curry I ordered from Mouthpiece Express, and it doesn't fit? Rattles around in the leadpipe, not as much as my Bach mouthpiece, but still very noticeably. Can I assume the leadpipe somehow got reamed for a non-Bach Morse taper (I think that's called a large Morse)? Or is it possible mouthpieceexpress screwed up my order (mouthpiece is stamped 1.5FLD-F)? Could the markings on the leadpipe (S Bb T1) hold any clue?

Predictably, I like the sound of the Curry, but the range of the Bach

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Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2025

I bought a used Curry mouthpiece for my Couesnon and it fits just fine.

Voltrane · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject:

Hello,

the same for me. I ordered a long time ago (but directly to Curry) a mouthpiece for my Couesnon and it was ok.
Regards.
Marc

Indofunk · Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:19 am Post subject:

Thanks. So either M.E. sent me the wrong taper or the leadpipe is reamed out. Does anyone know if all Curry flugel mouthpieces end in "-F" (for flugel) or just their French taper ("F") mouthpieces?
_________________
http://satish.bandcamp.com
http://urbanjungle.bandcamp.com
https://www.facebook.com/TheNevermindOrchestra

My main horns:
Conn 38B
Holton Firebird
Firebird demo

Voltrane · Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:50 pm Post subject:

Hello,

mine ends with Fl...But as it was a customized mouthpiece order, I do not known whether it is the "common" rule or not.
Marc

Indofunk · Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:37 pm Post subject:

M.E. confirmed that the "-F" indicates French taper. So all signs point to the leadpipe being reamed out. Too bad. Back to Josh it goes, I guess... Or should I spring for a GR leadpipe?
_________________
http://satish.bandcamp.com
http://urbanjungle.bandcamp.com
https://www.facebook.com/TheNevermindOrchestra

My main horns:
Conn 38B
Holton Firebird
Firebird demo

kenagy · Regular Member Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 16 Location: usa

Adding my Couesnon Flugelhorn info:

COUESNON (Big C goes around O)
PARIS
MADE IN FRANCE
806XX

A (stamped on 2nd valve, right side)
1, 2, 3 (stamped on valves, left side)
Bb (stamped on receiver, left side)

No other markings. Bought used and don't know when it was new.

Modifications: I have an original leadpipe and Charlie Melk leadpipe (which improved resonance). I also had a third valve slide put on for ease of D and C# intonation, of course.

I use a Denis Wick 4F mouthpiece.

Plays great in brass band and jazz, always get good feedback and questions from people on this instrument. Wouldn't trade it. If you have more info, let me know. This is a great thread going here.

Voltrane · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:05 am Post subject:

Hello,

Kenagy, no number model on the valves?
Mystery in the mysteries...
Regards
Marc

kenagy · Regular Member Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 16 Location: usa

Voltrane,

Nope. No other markings on valves or anywhere.

Where would these other marks on the valves be, I wonder?

Best wishes from Boston and I enjoyed reading your posts on this subject.

jimmyjazz1968 · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject:

Kenagy-this sounds like the same horn I bought in June! I have the melk leadpipe and am currently using a giardinelli flugel piece (12fl). This horn is fantastic. I don't have the 3rd valve tuning slide. Also, the receiver says Bb (on left side) but mine also says "31" on top of the receiver.

kenagy · Regular Member Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 16 Location: usa

oh yeah! mine also says 3 on the top of receiver

kenagy · Regular Member Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 16 Location: usa

cyber_shake · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 769