Couesnon Flugelhorn

etorres16 · Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject:

Wow, such much information....this is GREAT!! There are a couple of Couesnon Flugels on ebay right now. I wonder if that would add anything to this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/beautiful-french-COUESNON-flugelhorn_W0QQitemZ7415097338QQcategoryZ64374QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/AMAZING-COUESNON-GOLD-FINISH-FLUGELHORN-CASE-BACH-MPC_W0QQitemZ7415653706QQcategoryZ64374QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So, from all this information! What models are MONOPOLES, and which one's aren't. Should we just be going by the 3 digit model numbers, 139, 140, etc... like the catalogue states, or should it say MONOPOLE on the bell like some do.

The Royal Lancer · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:52 am Post subject:

More information

The Royal Lancer
Couesnon Star
Serial #7258X
Second Valve "N"
Leadpipe "112" and "D"
Nickle Silver finish

Let's keep going. This is interesting!!
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plp · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 6:10 am Post subject:

Bruce Lee · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject:

I have a COUESNON Monopole with a 2-piece bell, 142 on the leadpipe, nickel-silver plated. On the 2nd valve is Couesnon MADE IN FRANCE 30122

I bought it on eBay, directly from a guy in France. When we were speaking about the Couesnon's, he said that the earlier models often had a slightly warmer sound than the Monopole, but that the valve sections used on the Monopole models were superior to those used on the older models. So, the Monopole's are the best of both worlds.

Mine plays fairly well in tune... "for a Couesnon". It has brass spacers (12 mm) on the third valve slide, which has a trigger. I also use the GR/Melk Couesnon receiver, with an FD model GR Flugelhorn mouthpiece. That's a great combination, and an improvement over the standard Couesnon receiver with my Northern Brass/GR standard Flugel piece.

The Eclipse Flugels have truly captured the Couesnon sound... with excellent, excellent intonation. I recently had the opportunity to play 5 of them, while I was at the Eclipse factory. (All of which were sold.) The best one was Ben Gant's... probably because it has an absolutely stunning finish on it!

Best always,
Bruce
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Asian Man · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject:

I have a coueson that i bought in good condition from Dillon's music. I think it's an older flugel that is the Monopole and has the serial number of 27XX. That's all the markings there are on this one. I'm not sure when it was made. The only problems is that the low C is pretty flat and the low G and F# are pretty sharp and need most of the slide pushed out, otherwise it sounds great.
_________________
Bach Strad (lacq.) 37
Yamaha C Trumpet (silver) YTR6445HS
Couesnon Monopole Flugelhorn circa 1970
7 rims (Curry)
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Bruce Lee · Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject:

Asian Man,

The GR/Melk receiver, combined with the GR FD flugel mouthpiece really made a difference for me, as far as the intonation is concerned. Since you're close to Dillon's, you should try that combination. I think that you would be even more pleased with your Monopole.

Best always,
Bruce
_________________
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Please contact me for BE Lessons

Asian Man · Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject:

Bruce, would i really have to get a GR mouthpiece as well to get the best effect of the GR leadpipe? I'm currently planning to stay with the mouthpiece i'm using until college or longer, plus its a lot of money.
_________________
Bach Strad (lacq.) 37
Yamaha C Trumpet (silver) YTR6445HS
Couesnon Monopole Flugelhorn circa 1970
7 rims (Curry)
www.myspace.com/whistlingbarofsoap

Voltrane · Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: Couesnon Flugelhorn

Hello,

Some news :

1- Regarding the codes
1.1.-I know now the meaning of the letter on valve 2 thanks to 3 reliable sources in France.
The first one is Mrs Agathe Jeannoutot from “l’Olifant”, a brass retailer in Paris that has a workshop and craftsmen.
The second is Philippe Rault, a well-known craftsman in Maison-Laffitte, (near Paris). He has his own brass workshop with apprentices. His father was also an artisan and established the workshop in 1939.
The last one is directly PGM Couesnon (the founder and current owner, M. and Mme Planson have previously worked a lot of years in the “genuine” Couesnon company).
The 3 sources gave me the same answer:
the letter on the second valve is the initial letter of the name of the person who was responsible of the “chemise” (the tube where you insert the valves, translated by my Harraps dictionnary as “sleeves”), so that the quality control could give them a “mark” to assess the quality of their work.
M. Rault added that this is a “tradition” (at least in France) among the “pistonniers” (the guys making the valves and the valve block) to engrave their initial letter on the “chemise” (to identify their work). Himself and his apprentices are still doing this on the horns they make.
1.2.-Regarding the number on the leadpipe, PGM Couesnon told me it is the model number (of the leadpipe).
Well , but I still do not know the difference between 76 (on mine) and 363 for instance on another. I still have no information about the serial numbers and registers. I will directly ask about that when I go to Chateau-Thierry.

2-Regarding PGM-Couesnon: they currently make a Flugelhorn and a Cornet (among other low brasses) “à l’ancienne” (in a traditional way).
They told me the flugelhorn is based on our Couesnon, with improvements, among them triggers. They make it only on order but they always have one or two in stock. I am invited to try them. I don’t know the price.

All this was only contact by mails, so, as now they have heard of me, I plan to go to Chateau-Thierry to meet the people and try the flugel and the cornet. It will be interesting to try and it will give me the opportunity to talk directly with the craftsmen. I am sure I will learn more about the remaining mysteries when people really understand what we are looking for.
I will keep you aware.
Regards
Marc

plp · Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject:

Excellent research, Marc. Thank you for the amount of effort you are putting into this to get factual data we all can benefit from in the future.

I am looking forward to your reviews of the new Couesnons.

somedaylikechet · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 261

Thanks Marc, really interesting. Isn't it strange that almost no music shop has some of their horns in stock to try out? I once saw them at Top Music in Villeneuve, Switzerland. They surely looked nice. I didn't try them (they wre behind glass, like somthing really precious).
Daniel

Voltrane · Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:54 am Post subject:

Daniel,

you wrote:
"Isn't it strange that almost no music shop has some of their horns in stock to try out?".
First remember they make it only if you order it.
As long as I have not met them, I don't know really their toughts, but I can assume at least one reason because it is a kind of "French disease".
In France, the more your business grows, the more you have troubles. And if you hire people, the "gates of hell are open". A lot of small and middle businesses fear to grow for this reason: it is very difficult to adapt the market situation, no flexibility ( This joke sums up: "It is easier to divorce his secretary than to lay her off") .
Second, remember M and Mme Planson are former Couesnon employees. They have lived the Couesnon's fall. It was a big company, probably unable to adapt for the previous reasons. I can understand if they think: "Never again. We are well and alive like that and it is fine. Too much customers, we die".

But in the same time, on the french forum, many beginners or students ask the same eternal question: "What do you recommand as my first flugelhorn?" and get the same eternal answer: "Try to find an used Couesnon"....and the unemployement rate stays at 10%.
Regards
Marc

Funkifier · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jun 2006 Posts: 14

Bit off the subject,

Will a vintage Couesnon fit in a stock Yamaha (Shew, 731, 631) flugel case?

johnmarkpainter · Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject:

I'll add mine

"Star" B 76xxx 12 on reciever

John

eagle362 · Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:00 am Post subject:

I have a friend who's horn is Number #82918.
It is marked "A" on the right of the second valve. As I think I read above, the
letter stands for the initial of the final builder.
BTW, this horn is a real nice player with noisy valves. Laquered brass.
Can we determine a year of mfg???
Thanks!
MARK

johnmarkpainter · Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject:

From what I have seen, that Serial number sounds like late 70's early 80's.
Does he have the original Case? That can help identify the era as well.

jmp

SuperC WannaB · Regular Member Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 14

Sorry to come in so late to the discussion but i have 2 fully restored turn of the century Couesnon flugels, all original parts, Robb Steward did some minor restoration ... all original parts ...and then it had double silver plated by Zig Kanstul. Third Valve throw added

Maybe someone could tell me the history behind these because they have quite different bell markings even thou th pineapple number is not two fr abort ..

Sorry but my French is rough, but the engraving is very deep still so I will do my best as long as I put my cheaters on.

They came my way via a collection by the great trumpet/flugelhorn collector Hall oringer after passed away in NY some time ago.

OK ...

first Row _ all centered on bell - First of 2 restored Couesnon of the collection

Banner with " expciotn universillede paris " this is a 3 part banner on the with the words stammped instide of them

medallion sysmbol 1900

HOUR CONCOURSE - membre de juror

Circle with logo ( CmC )

Couesnon and Cie - Large letters

foursseusiss del" armee ( small upper case #' )

94 rue D arguinelle
Paris
( Pinaple ) 28
Firma
Korma-Korsmit
Maarichsict

My personal life now dicatates I sell these so any information of this one or the next one I will post will be greatly appreciated.

trumpetmaster2005 · Regular Member Joined: 27 Aug 2005 Posts: 59

One Question, what got u into Couesnon flugels and how u were introduced to them?

Anybody???

I love 'em!!! But never own one but I wanted to.
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Voltrane · Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:49 am Post subject:

Hello,

SuperC, I do not have further explanations about the meaning of the "Couesnon Codes" than those I already posted here but for the understanding of the engraving, I will correct your "rough french"...with my "rough english"

1- "expciotn universillede paris " is "Exposition Universelle de Paris". It means a world "show" standing in Paris at this time.
2-"medallion sysmbol 1900" means the "Exposition Universelle de Paris" what the 19000 "world show"
3-"HOUR CONCOURSE - membre de juror " is French "Hors Concours, Membre du Jury." That means that at this time, they were so well considered that they do not have to compete, they sit on the jury to judge the others.
4-"foursseusiss del" armee ( small upper case #' )" is "Fournisseur de l'armée". It means "Supplier of the French army" (supposed to be a quality, at least in solidity if not in sound, but you know in pre ww1, sound....)
5-"94 rue D arguinelle Paris" is only an adress, may be the company adress at this time.
6-"( Pinaple ) 28" means the horn was made in 1928
7-Firma Korma-Korsmit Maarichsict. I do not know. "Maarichsict" remind me the very famous Maastricht in The Netherland (where the latest European treaty was signed). If my assumption is corrected, that seems mean the horn was made by Couesnon for the "Firma Korma-Korsmit" in Maastricht. But obviously it is a Couesnon.
Merry Xmas to everyone.
Marc

trumpaholic · Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:18 am Post subject:

I have a Couesnon 59,081 which is an outstanding horn. Valves were plated originally and have some plating loss. The tone is amazing, super dark and fluffy with very good intonation. It would be a lot better with a 3rd valve trigger for low C#. There is a A stamped on the second valve and no number on the leadpipe. It is the long Couesnon leadpipe and would certainly be nicer if it were shortened a tad and my 16FL Schilke plays dead on pitch with the pipe all the way in. In a cold environment, one has to get it warmed up prior to playing. Of the 4 Couesnons I have owned, this is by far the best one.

Jonne021 · Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:47 am Post subject:

Mine says:

Couesnon (with the o in the c)
Paris
Made In France
#82875

A on the 2:nd valve

68 on the leadpipe

A little bit customized by the previous owner as you can see in the pictures (3rd valve trigger and drilled hole for contact mic (!))

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