Couesnon Flugelhorn

jicetp · Heavyweight Member Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Posts: 987

So !

How to define one's Couesnon rank :

Monopole ? Star Monopole ?
And then.........Pineapple on bell ?
Serial ?

Help !!

Voltrane · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:42 am Post subject:

Hi,

regarding the Monopole and the star Monopole I have no information.
I only had the opportunity to have a look on pre WW2 catalogs and there is only Monopole. In 1934 appears the Monopole Conservatoire model with "a larger bore". Seems considered by Couesnon at this time as the "ultimate" flugel.
Unfortunatly, I have not seen yet a post WW2 catalog.
Regarding the pineapple (in French "la grenade") it is the year of making.
Forget the serial number. It seems there is no understandable coherency and Couesnon records have been destroyed...
Regards
Marc

jicetp · Heavyweight Member Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Posts: 987

Pineapple : ce n'est pas plutôt ' Ananas' ?
Peu importe

stephan · Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:42 am Post subject:

Voltrane · Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:43 am Post subject:

Jicetp,

it is true:in French, Pineapple is "Ananas" (the fruit). But in the case of a horn, what you call Pineapple is called "grenade" (like the military hand weapon, not the fruit). May be because it looks like a bomb!
Cheers.
Marc

kleckflix · New Member Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 1

Here is my couesnon info

The bell info is engraved in all block letters, looks almost like a typeface
STAR
COUESNON
PARIS
73307
MADE IN FRANCE

(Right Side 2nd valve) B
(Left Side) 1 2 3
Mouth Piece Receiver 217

Any guess on the year of this horn?

Dave

baszz · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:13 am Post subject:

Wel here,s my contribution for the serial numebers from Couesnon.
I,ve two Monopoles, one i am playing on and another taht i am rebuilding.

The one i,m playing says

Monopole
Couesnon
Paris
42310
made in france

on the receiver is stamped: 30 D

on the second valve is stamped B and on the tube 34

on the other side is stamped 1-2-3

on the valves is also stamped 1-2-3

Hope it helpes for a serial number archive for couesnon.
_________________
Hub van Laar B5 custom Brushed gold. 2007
Custom Straub E-Line Bb. 2004
Conn wonder cornet. 1895
Conn Director Conet. 1957
2 Couesnon monopole flugels `60,s

Jarobar · New Member Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 6 Location: London

I have bought Couesnon recently, has added third valve trigger and using GR leadpipe sounds fantastic...Here is some more info..

COUESNON
STAR
PARIS
74488
Made in France

B on right side of 2nd valve
1 2 3 from left side
Mouth Piece Receiver 233

Any guess for the age ?

Thank you

Jaro
_________________
Couesnon Star Fluelhorn
Custom JB Gold ECLIPSE MR & SOLAR
L.A. Benge 3x ML

ravel · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 127

The company got in trouble with the trademark "Monopole Conservatoires" as they had no affiliation with the Paris Conservatoire at that time. It was taken as to mean they had some sort of endorsement by the conservatory (translated monopoly of the conservatory). After that the name was changed to "star". 90 years prior they had furnished all the instruments to the conservatory and that's where it all started.

loil · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject:

frankp1954 · New Member Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 1

I am new to this forum but I read this topic intently. I have an old Couesnon fuglehorn that I purchased used in 1975 or 1976. I don't believe everything is original having seen pictures of other flugelhorns, I think some things were changed when it was refurbished. The markings on the horn are:
Couesnon (c wraps around the o)
Paris
Made in France
80652
valves leftside 1,2,3 number on each valve
valves rightside, center valve "K"
mouthpiece slide receiver, "S 39 N"
no other numbers or markings

jvdtpt · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Couesnon Flugelhorn

Hi, I wondered if anyone could give me any info on these markings.
on the bell: COUESNON
STAR
PARIS
made in France (in small caps)

also: an N on the 2nd valve

also a 150 near the mouthpiece receiver

There's no serial # other than the 150 near the mouthpiece. I bought it in the early 70's. Great horn!

Flugelnut · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: Couesnon flugel

After reading so many glowing testimonials to the unique sound of Couesnon flugels (the older ones anyway) I've been trying hard to get hold of one to hear for myself. Up to last week I'd never played one or even seen one in the flesh.
A music shop had a used one that they agreed to send me on a trial basis.
It is a silver plated Monopole, my guess is that it is post-fire but pre-PFM.
The reason for thinking that is that the bell is marked "Couesnon Monopole" at the right hand side, like the present day PGM Couesnons, but without the "PGM".
The second valve housing is marked (lenghtwise):"Made in France 027XX".
No other markings.
Bell dia is 150 mm, bore is 10.5 mm, it has a 3rd valve trigger, and 3 Amado waterkeys. Overall build quality appears OK.
Playing it, however, was rather disappointing. I don't hear anything special, it's OK but no more than that.
Of course, it may be me and/or my choice of mouthpiece (Tilz F23 with Klier EFL8 rim), or my addiction to large-bore flugels, but I'm not going to keep it.
I find it no match for my F. Besson Meha by Kanstul, and certainly not for my LA Benge 5.
If anyone is interested, I can PM the dealer's details.

chriscoop · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:29 am Post subject:

tom turner · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject:

Yes Chris,

They did have piss-poor craftmanship, sorry lacquer jobs . . . all sorts of stuff going against 'em.

Back "in the day" you had to play a bunch of 'em usually to find one that was a decent horn due to so many things that could go wrong that make horns inconsistent.

THEN AGAIN . . .

I bought mine new around early '73, after a quest. Why were they so popular? Two reasons:

1. If you found a decent one, they sounded GREAT!

However . . . most importantly (though not realized to folks on the internet today that weren't playing back then) . . .

2. They were super CHEAP! That's why starving trumpeters wanted one . . . if they could find a good one!!! Cheap and decent always sells!

I paid $150 for mine, brand new in early '73. I bought a new Benge trumpet later that year (which cost what a new Bach did at the time) and paid about $450 for it, new.

Thus, if was over half what a decent trumpet cost of it's time, yet sounded great and . . . IF YOU FOUND A GOOD ONE . . . they could play really well too.

Folks make a big fuss over them today and, quite frankly, back when it was new it was still THE sound you wanted in a fluglehorn (either the cheaper Couesnon or rarer and more expensive original F. Besson).

However, they were a crudely-built horn. Nothing mystical about 'em at all, in that respect.

T.

cornet56 · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Jul 2008 Posts: 205

I have a cousnon late model i got in 83, used, that has the name and Monopole etched on the bell. It's real, I've seen literature on on it.

its also for sale.

weezintrumpeteer · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject:

I have:

Triebert
Moderne
41260
MADE IN FRANCE

It has the valves labeled 1 2 3 on the right side, along with "140ST" stamped on the number 2 valve casing. On the opposite side, there is a "B" on the second valve casing. The leadpipe has what appears to be a D10 although I think the D is backwards.

Great info in the thread! So to clear it up, what do each of these individual markings mean? Also, anyone have any idea what year mine is made?

Thanks,
Patrick
_________________
'70 Selmer Radial
'70's Getzen Eterna Cornet
'47 Martin Committee Deluxe #3
'06 Monette B993

loil · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:34 am Post subject:

Gui · New Member Joined: 28 Sep 2008 Posts: 1

Hello, I picked up an old Couesnon Cornet at a flea market in France. The markings are as follows

(Banner with) Universelles Exposition de Paris
(double rimmed circle with) 1900
Hors concours
membre du jury
Couesnon & CIE (underlined)
Fournisseurs
des beaux-arts
du conservatoire national
et de l´armee
94. rue d´angouleme
paris
Monopole (in fancy graphic)
28***

There are no further markings on the bell.

Numbers 1, 2, 3 marked on the valves
and the number 11 on the opposite side of second valve.

Three marking on leadpipe
what looks like an L on top
number 14 on bottom
and O N written one above the other some quarter of an inch from the 14

I saw the identical stamp from the bell on a picture of a baritone the was circa 1906 ... or so it claimed at least

This instrument had been well used, but somebody at least tried to keep it in working order. It has brass laquer that has darkened with age but has not come off, multiple dents, including previously bent bell. I think the guy that sold it to me had used it for many years. I unfortunately was unable to get more history on it.

Does anyone have at least an idea when it might have been produced, I am having problems placing it with the limited information available. I have been doing quite a bit of research on it but am a little confused... no grenade, number instead of letter on 2nd valve and multiple markings on leadpipe.

Would this be worth restoring despite multiple dents? It still seems to play when oiled well enough, but all the corks are falling apart so air escapes through the spit valve, so I am not sure about its tone. It really needs some tlc.

Any comments are appreciated!

In any case, maybe this information will help with the serial number search.

Thanks!

Voltrane · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:56 am Post subject:

Hello,

could you post some pictures?
Regards.
Marc