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area51recording
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Joined: 23 Dec 2005
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 Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Another update.....played a piano bar gig tonight and really tried to use this inhale technique whenever possible while singing. WOW what a difference in my singing, both in intonation and vocal quality. I'm not the world's greatest singer by a long shot, and the added support I got from this really helps.  |
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_dcstep
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 6324
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| area51recording wrote: | | Another update.....played a piano bar gig tonight and really tried to use this inhale technique whenever possible while singing. WOW what a difference in my singing, both in intonation and vocal quality. I'm not the world's greatest singer by a long shot, and the added support I got from this really helps. |
I had a similar experience, but in church. Rich Szabo demonstrated the technique on a Saturday and I tried it that night on my horn, with good success. The next morning in church I thought to continue it in my singing and the difference was dramatic. Like you say, my intonation suddenly was spot-on, the tone quality was fuller, comfortable range expanded and vibrato started slipping itself into my voice. Wow.
Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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tim_wolf
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Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Derek Reaban wrote: | I wonder what percentage of players fill up to around 80 percent of capacity and then aggressively push the air out, trying to mimic “support” (as Rich mentions in that first sentence). I know that the percentage of players that first pressurize (very close to 100 percent of capacity) and then simply release the air are enjoying benefits of sound production that the remaining percentage of players simply marvel at.
This different mind set of “support” is worth revisiting frequently, because it’s so important. Pressurize and Release! |
With this in mind, would the amount of pressurization increase if ones lung capacity increased? If so, it would seem that the player with a large lung capacity would have an advantage. |
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_dcstep
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Location: Denver
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| tim_wolf wrote: |
With this in mind, would the amount of pressurization increase if ones lung capacity increased? If so, it would seem that the player with a large lung capacity would have an advantage. |
The positive pressure increases as you near 100% of capacity whether your capacity is average or high. A person with high capacity will need to take in more air to achieve the same pressure, but the high lung-capacity person will be able to hold a phrase longer.
As you practice at 100% you will likely increase your volume; however, I think the real goal is to gain operating experience near 100% capacity with minimal stress. You need to be able to play with positive pressurization all the time. If you try to do that at 100% of you capacity, it'll be tiring. So, you practice at 100% of capacity a few minutes, but then move to a level that's more like 95% and ultimately only enough positive volume so that you can make it through the upcoming phrase.
Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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area51recording
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Joined: 23 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay, I've got a question. In all the time I've been playing wind instruments I've NEVER inhaled thru the nose before this. The first thing I'm struck by is that feeling of being pressurised with NO TENSION. IOW if I take in a similar amount of air through the mouth there always seems to be at least a small amount of tension present. Also, or pehaps because of this, I don't get the same feeling of effortlessly "sitting on top of the air" and then merely releasing it into the horn. My question is: when playing, obviously before starting a phrase one can take the breath through the nose, getting that nice "pressurised" feeling, but what about those times when one must grab a quick breath during a long phrase? It seems that when I fill back up this way I don't get the same feeling of positive relaxed pressure that I get with the nose breath. Anybody else experience this? Maybe I just need to work with the technique some more to even things out, but I'd love to be able to arrive at that same feeling while quickly tanking back up. |
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_dcstep
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Location: Denver
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| area51recording wrote: | | My question is: when playing, obviously before starting a phrase one can take the breath through the nose, getting that nice "pressurised" feeling, but what about those times when one must grab a quick breath during a long phrase? It seems that when I fill back up this way I don't get the same feeling of positive relaxed pressure that I get with the nose breath. Anybody else experience this? Maybe I just need to work with the technique some more to even things out, but I'd love to be able to arrive at that same feeling while quickly tanking back up. |
I feel the same thing and mainly use the mouth for quick refills. Those refills don't tend to be 100%, but just enough to keep me pressurized until I time for a full nose-breath. Like all things, a little practice will also reduce the stressed feeling.
I'm working on the Bach Cello Suites transcriptions for trumpet. Besides being incredibly beautiful music and excellent in developing many aspects of trumpet playing, they're incredible as breath control exercises. To get anywhere close to the phrasing of great cellists, you have to really work out your breathing and take quick breaths at a number of spots. Miss a breath opportunity and you're dead. I highly recommend these suites, available from Colin Music.
Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest |
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2-5-1
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys, this is a really interesting thread, and im really enjoying the read. My question is, how long is this slow breath? When i try to do this, (slow, nose breath) things head south real quick (thin sound, dbl buzz, very difficult to play...) I know that when i get in trouble, it is usually because of a slow, "un-energized" breath. When im doing the nose breath, the breath is about 5 seconds...it is usually just a nice "in and out" focusing on taking in the air low. Any thoughts.... Mike S.
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Derek Reaban
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Location: Tempe, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 2-5-1 wrote: | | Hey guys, this is a really interesting thread, and im really enjoying the read. My question is, how long is this slow breath? When i try to do this, (slow, nose breath) things head south real quick (thin sound, dbl buzz, very difficult to play...) I know that when i get in trouble, it is usually because of a slow, "un-energized" breath. When im doing the nose breath, the breath is about 5 seconds...it is usually just a nice "in and out" focusing on taking in the air low. Any thoughts.... Mike S. |
Timing your breath before an entrance is very helpful. If you have several bars before your next entrance, you might try breathing for 3 or 4 beats to align with your first note. Practice is important here, because if you know you'll be full at 3 beats, but too full with 4, you need to gauge that properly. A slow breath isn't the cause of being "un-energized". It may simply be that you're not as full as when you take a faster breath through your mouth. Experiment with it and you will find what works best for you, but remember that MANY fine players advocate a slower initial breath.
Good luck!
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest |
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neh
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 156
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Great reading, Mr. Reaban! Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Glad that you learned a new technique that improves your playing.
All of you interested in the breathing aspect of playing might want to get a copy of "Teaching Brass" by Mr. Kristian Steenstrup. It's a technical/medical/academic book on breathing related to wind players. Whether it helps your own playing, I cannot say, but it's a great insight into what happens when breathing. I have benefited a lot from reading it (combined with Bruce Nelson's "Also sprach Arnold Jacobs" + other Jacobs material). Ah, and of course taking lessons from a teacher well versed in the dynamics of breathing .
Just my 0.02...
N. |
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MrV
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Posts: 222
Location: CA USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| tag for later reading |
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