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Yamaha Schilke clones...


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Benge.nut
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Joined: 18 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an old YTR-636 that I played for years. Feels somewhere between a B6 and a B7. Excellent intonation and really sizzles.

I should play that horn again...forgot how much fun it is.

Sorta Schilke feel, but it's definitely a different animal. In no way a "clone".
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

p76 wrote:
Hi Lou,

Hi Roger

Yes, that was my post, still own the 634 and 732.

Great! If my brief go on the 634 is anything to go by, I imagine that you have two very nice trumpets.

There is a lot of stuff written about the Yamaha pro trumpets of the 70s and Schilke's involvement with them, and the true story is becoming as murky as the stories around the birth of the Martin Committee.

I can imagine.

Ren was hired by Yamaha to design their pro horns, so naturally he brought his ideas to the products - hence the reverse tuning slides, step bores etc.

I understand, thanks.

But they are not "copies" or "clones". They play very similarly to the Schilkes because Ren designed them, but he took the chance to do things a little differently to how he did his own horns. So the leadpipes are slightly different, as are the bells.

Thanks very much for advising me of this. I haven't played a Schilke so cannot compare the two.

Having owned two of the Yams, and briefly played a variety of Schilkes over the years, I would describe the horns as belonging to the same extended "family" of instruments, rather that being "copies" or "clones". If you've played a Schilke B series and step on to a Yamaha, or vice versa, you'll feel comfortable with the change.

Interesting, thanks. As I said I haven't played a schilke. I presume that this is only applicable to the older Yamaha trumpets, as I wouldn't say that the 634 played anything like my modern Yamaha Xeno II, or any of the other post 1994 (year I started playing on a Yamaha YTR-2320E) Yamaha trumpets I have played.

The Yam horns have been slowly increasing in price in the last few years, as more people get in on the "secret". Good horns.

I didn't have more that a brief go on my colleague's, but it immediately jumped out to me as being a good horn, so I am not surprised that they are going up in price used.

Cheers,
Roger

Thanks very much.

Take care

Lou

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Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete wrote:
Roger is correct. For example,the 6310B, predessor of the 6310Z/8310Z was modeled after Bob McCoy's Martin Committee. Bob was a great player working in NY, Tonight Show,etc. Mr. Schilke also had a hand in the Martin Committees since he was part of the committee.

Pete


Hi Pete

Obviously not my thread originally, but since I started it off again, thanks very much.

Best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5461
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benge.nut wrote:
I have an old YTR-636 that I played for years. Feels somewhere between a B6 and a B7. Excellent intonation and really sizzles.

I should play that horn again...forgot how much fun it is.

Sorta Schilke feel, but it's definitely a different animal. In no way a "clone".


Hi Benge.nut

Thanks very much.

Take care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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cgaiii
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Joined: 26 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As always, a wealth of information in this thread. I was interested in the positioning of the YTR-6335 and YTR-6345 horns, and this comparison with the old models and Schilkes helps me understand why I liked a 6335 when I tried it. I now have one as a backup horn. Have to try a 6345 some day.
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Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zombie Alert,

I just ran across this thread and amazed that I hadn't contributed in the first place.

1. The three digit Yamaha Bb,C, and D-Eb trumpets were designed with Reynold Schilke "consulting," hence the remarkable similarity. Yamaha technicians and engineers were frequent visitors to the factory on Wabash, complete with cameras. Reynold spent a lot of time working with them in Japan. The shop was nice and quiet when he was in Japan.
2. the MI trumpets were all Yamaha parts, the pistons were fitted at Schilke's. The MII were Yamaha body and bell with Schilke custom leadpipe and tuning slide, also pistons fitted at Schilke. All these instruments were polished and assembled at Schilke plated at Anderson)
3. The only Yamaha instruments coming out of the Schilke factory when I was there were the 4 valve piccolos, all Yamaha parts, valves fitted (some by me) on the Schilke Sunnen hone and finished like every other horn to come out of the factory.
The Yamaha 6335 and on were post-Schilke. I think Yamaha decided to put a hurt on Bach and they are still at it.
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgaiii wrote:
As always, a wealth of information in this thread. I was interested in the positioning of the YTR-6335 and YTR-6345 horns, and this comparison with the old models and Schilkes helps me understand why I liked a 6335 when I tried it. I now have one as a backup horn. Have to try a 6345 some day.


I had a 6345S for a while. A college student brought it in to my shop and it was BAD, stuffy, out of tune. He traded it for an old Bach that w had in the shop.

I said to myself, this is not right, so I took it apart and checked it out. I finally ran a chaser through the bell from the 1st valve port. Lo and behold a pencil stub popped out of the bell. I put it together and used it myself for the next 6 months. An excellent all around horn.
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Brassnose
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Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2020
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zombie thread alert but the question may fit - older Yamahas.

I recently ran into a YCR 631 and a YCR 731 cornet. I understand that the 6xx is lacquer and the 7xx is silver plate (that’s what the horns look like, too) BUT what about the other specs?

Earlier on in this thread there is a very nice comparison of the Yamaha three-digit trumpet models with their Schilke counterparts. Anyone able to do that with the cornets?

To me, the YCR 631 and 731 look a lot like the Schilke A1 long cornet. True or false? Both in terms of specs and playability/sound?
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