Need guidance for anchor tounging

[Rod Haney]

Hi,
This is not an attempt to debate the advantage or disadvantage of Anchor Tongue, just a request for info about it.

I was hitting a consistent, in tune, very little strain hi c with a player much better than me and asked him how he maintained his tongue-ing when playing in this atmosphere and much higher where he plays regularly. He explained that you must (his choice of words) Anchor tongue up there. I have always used the tip of my tongue to tongue but he said to maintain the speed of the air needed in the hi register, that the tongue needs to be anchored to the back of the teeth, and I assume this means not to leave there, and the parts of the more raised tongue break the air flow vs. my method of touching the lip. I immediately tried the tongue position and while slurring was going to hi g very easily, so it does work to extend range over the free floating tongue I was using - but damned if I can get any clean articulation, and cannot maintain the even breath flow I have been working so hard to establish - jeez this aint easy.

What I need are some pointers to explanations and methods for using this (anchor tongue) to single and eventually double and triple tongue (took me a long time to get that down the other way) in the upper register. I understand why I want to do it - just not the proper methods to accomplish it. I don't mind doing the hard work to get it now that I understand how it helps range (never could figure out how to raise the tongue before it was anchored, and the tone thru out the range is much fatter this way) but I feel like I am talking with a mouth full of mush when I try it, very awkward.

Please guide me to a resource for this. I am hoping I can get some general direction and resource help.

Thanks,
Rod

[kalijah]

You may be overly concerned about it. The tongue does move forward as you ascend. It has nothing to do with "air speed".

You can also learn to play with a bit more "roll-in" added to ascend. This requires less extreme tongue positions and makes articulation better and easier.

Practice clean articulation for the entire range starting low and working up. It will improve.

[EBjazz]

This will help get you started:
https://bolvinmusic.com/k-tongue-modified/

Eb
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Eric Bolvin
http://bolvinmusic.com/product/the-modern-jazz-trumpet-method/
www.bolvinmusic.com

[Rod Haney]

Thanks for the link. I'm at the k tongue point and I hate to say it but it's encouraging to hear he sounds like me without the modification. Getting that mod down is going to be the trick. The anchor tongue is the shiz tho!!!

2 things happened last nite I hope to find again today. I was practicing during election results last night and easily popping a hi g ( maybe not amazilng to some of you but a few notes higher than normal. Wife comes into the practice room and asks me to put in practice mute so she can sleep. I've got a Yamaha silent brass but even that feels wrong, so I just played into some foam and towels about 6 inches from bell open, not a real change in feel but muffles the projection and probably took it down a level too. I am taking lessons with Jim man li I am taking lessons with Jim Manley and he is all about reducing strain in the upper register. I have been learning what he is teaching but still am only to the hi c / d range before strain (visible and audible), until anchor tongue. The anchor tongue took me fairly immediately to a good e. For some reason (????) playing into the "muffler" was letting me get to the next partial which I think is cc. I know that playing with artificial resistance isn't good and was so jazzed that I pulled away from the muffler and tried to duplicate the feel and was able to hit the same note in tune a few more times. No strain! Now I got to figure out how to do it again and learn to tongue all over again. This may never happen again in my life, but I finally touched the point where me and my horn were working together and not trying to fight it out.
Sorry about the ramble but I'm jacked up and pulling the horn out now.
Thanks
Rod

[razeontherock]

Anchor tongue is absolutely essential for me to have any consistency up top, and I haven't missed an A above high c on stage in a long time now.

I put a LOT of deliberate effort into this, and have found no shortcuts. One major discovery for me was to open my lips enough while looking in the mirror to see what my tongue does naturally: it'll stay in the same position as though it were sealing the air off entirely, but will drop in the middle to let air through. Thinking of this helps me mentally, and I often do practice this skill slowly at first to get it clean, and then increase speed to keep things coordinated.

My "warm-up" is in large part getting my jaw into position, then tongue, then lips. Having the right mental focus first. Once those variables are in place can really just pick the horn up and play with (almost) no need to warm-up, if the playing isn't too demanding.

I wish I could say my tongue speed was quicker this way, as I think it should be because there is less movement. I'm not any faster this way, but I do have my max speed on single, double and triple tongue with a bona fide ktm. The only time I change it is to tongue below low C, and really, when do you ever have to do that?

Keep working on it, it will pay off. Also, I have lost no ability to tongue the old "normal" way, with the tongue flopping around all over the place. If there's ever a call for that, I can still do that as well as ever.

[Rod Haney]

I am starting to think this is something I will use selectively. I see a definite improvement in air speed with the anchor tongue above hi c actually above g, but I an do a no strain hi c using free tongue, and really can't tell a difference in tambour or intonation. I can however articulate notes much better free tongue to c. After that to my current weaker hi g the anchored tongue produces stronger notes with less lower body compression and if I don't anchor tongue the g isn't really a note I want to play. I am not someone who wants to play 4 hours a day or do music for a living Soooo does it make any sense to play the way I always have except for the rare ocassion I play above hi c ( I like blues/rock/funk ) and haven't seen great demand for the super hi, but like everyone I would like it. Guess my question is, if you have no need to anchor to get to a certain point should you practice it below that point or just use it when you need it and deal with slurring like most hi note guys do? I spend so little time on notes where I need it and have so many other needs as a player I just wonder how dedicated I should be with it? If I played lead I think it would make much sense to only do 1 way but out of 1000 notes I may only play 40 notes abov hi c, but I don't play written music anymore either.
Rod

[JVL]

Hello Rod,
recently during a practice session, i felt my tongue adopt by itself the KTM or dorsal tonguing. I didn't decide it. My body felt the necessity to do so, the more efficient way to play legato, single, double & triple tonguing in the high register, above high C (that's what i was practicing, up to high B b).
I decided to give it a try, as i've been tonguing with the tip of the tongue from the beginning of my trumpet playing, i mean 38 years ago !
But to have better and quicker info about this KTM or dorsal tonguing, i jumped into a thread, and asked John Mohan.
He and Mcgovnor gave me very good and precise infos.
Have a read, it should help :
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140279&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20
Best

[Rod Haney]

Thanks, Looks like use it when you need it is going to work. Don't think id need it if I played a consistent 4 hrs a day, but then it wouldn't be a fun hobby anymore. Still the use of the flatter tongue has had its uses.
Thanks
Rod

[Shaft]

Resource - Pops aT Bbtrumpet.com

Or if you want to PM me I can explain some things about my playing with these concepts.
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🎺

[Craig Swartz]

Pop's stuff is great. For starters, however, just try tonguing "Tee Tee Tee Tee Teeeeeee" or Tih Tih Tih Tih Tiiiiiih up high. Do it while you're reading this and see where your tongue is, then copy to playing. Good luck.