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New Mouthpiece: The Wedge


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DrDave
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bill,

Do you want to try the 1.5BC or 3BC opened up?

Cheers,
Dave
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Bill W
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Dave:

The 3BC, thanks. The 1.5 felt like it went too low on my lower lip.

BTW For other Maynard fans out there, I got my copy of the new Video from Sleepy Night Records of Maynard's 1970 1 hour Musical variety show that was broadcast once on the BBC and then forgotten. "The World of Maynard Ferguson". It is part terrific live recorded music with the band from, what I refer to as the "Bridge Over Troubled Water" Album. Great, balanced well mixed and produced numbers, superb solos and a couple songs with Jon Hendrics, including a great scat version of "Got the Spirit". The rest is pure 1960's-70 camp together with a good dose of drug references, Indian Music, some classical guitar, Beatles references, including an intro with the band running through London with their instruments a la "A Hard Days Night" (You can't make this up!!), bell bottoms, twiggy look-a-likes and a session of meditation with Swami Bhavyananda......no......really!!!!! Well worth getting for us fanatics.
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Trumpeter585
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I ordered the Wedge tonight, a 7CC with a 7 BB I did a lot of reading here and other places and I'm willing to give it a try.
Brian
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Trumpeter585
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Dr. Dave call me an hour after I placed my order and he is sending me a 5CC and a 6BB also to try, now that is something, these days! Thanks again. Brian
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kenmiller
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: New Mouthpiece: The Wedge Reply with quote

My choice of a 3C, gold plated, is working very well, while developing my familiarity with a new horn, an Edwards Bb, after a lay off during recuperation from car accident injuries. The return to big band rehearsals has confirmed the efficiency and quality sound production of the Wedge.

The Wedge certainly adds endurance and ease of access to additional range, and more core to the sound (especially on the Edwards with choice of lead pipes and a heavier gauge bell option).

My previous mouthpieces, a Stork 4D and a Schilke M3* have 26 and 24 throats, that worked well dealing with C trumpet intonation quirks, and I am considering opening the throat on the Wedge (the two backbores are Warburton 8 and 9*). Dr. Dave is readily accessible to discussion of optional configurations and the question of increasing the throat to, say, a 26 is on the agenda.

The addition of a 3B Wedge is also an option for some applications where increased range is not an issue.
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of great feedback so far on the Wedgies (as I like calling them now)

I'm so happy with my pieces. Here's yet another really low-fi 128K mp3 unmixed take of the Wedge 3B (and my new Selmer 80J) below.

This piece can do it all: All I need now is to find a LOT more practice time!

http://media.putfile.com/One-Finger-Snap-on-3B-Wedge
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NickD
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:29 am    Post subject: 15 hours and counting... Reply with quote

Well, after reading many of the posts here and at TM I had to give these a go. I got in touch with Dr. Dave and arranged to have a trial pack of quite a few combinations. He sent more than I had originally anticipated! I felt like a Soviet in a supermarket!

They arrived yesterday afternoon (2/22) and I played on them for hours. I'd like to share my initial reactions here.

As many of you know, I have been a devout Asymmetric user for 7 years now. I still love them. I have a couple of video clips up on my Online Lessons page on how to use them. They do require adjustments and folks either love them or hate them.

When I first began using the Asymmetrics, I was able to play them right away, but didn't notice any range changes. What I got was more endurance. As I learned how to use them better, I have found them to work beautifully for me.

Now, things worked differently with the Wedge mouthpieces. I did notice a range improvement almost immediately. It wasn't what I expected, but instead was a pleasant surprise. I found that after a couple of minutes finding a good set for me that I could play just about as high as ever. In fact, by nights end, I found my upper register on the Wedges was a match to that on my Lynch pieces. It was the LOWER register that got me! It just pops right out with a big fat sound with MINIMAL adjustment. I also found I could cover more vertical turf before feeling the need to switch from low gear to high gear.

Right now I am messing with 1.5FC and 1 FC upper parts. So far, I love them! Here's a mind blower, for me, though. I was using Warburton 8 and 10* BB's to test them and got some mixed feelings. Then I popped in this KT BB. Holy, moly! I've never had a BB make THAT big an adjustment ever! Dave mentioned some others I'll have to try.

Right now, I am leaning heavily towards the 1.5FC with the KT BB. I also liked the 1.5CC and the 3CC, again with the KT BB.

Another wonderful development was for my Stage 1 Model GS cornet. I have been messing with mouthpieces for it. I made an old Warburton 4XD with a 1CFL rim threaded onto it into an asymmetric with some plumbers putty. It works fine, but still didn't produce a foggy, velvety enough cornet sound for my taste. Dave has solved that for me completely! I have a Wedge 1.5 A on a Warbutron 9 cornet BB. It is simply fantastic! I can get a wonderful dark sound with it and still bring some heat if the spirit moves me!

I am not going to dump on my friend, John Lynch. I still love his mouthpieces and will still continue to have my name attached to them. However, my original relationships with John was as a customer. I bought my first Asymmetrics. Then I started testing mouthpieces for him. We are both scientists and engineers, so the comraderie is palpable. However, in the spirit of exploration, I think even John would support my looking at these. No one mouthpiece will work for EVERY player out there. There is no "one size fits all," so I am comfortable with supporting Dr. Dave's effort as well. There is a need for BOTH John's work AND Dr. Dave's work.

I'll make some more posts as I get a bit more used to these. Some final comments are important here. The machine work on the Wedge mouthpieces is spectacular. Even though these can't be turned on a traditional lathe, but rather have to be cut with a computer driven tool and die machine, the finish is beautiful. They have a mirror-like finish that makes them incredibly comfortable. In fact, I will jump on board with the comment that this is the most comfortable rim I have ever played. The asymmetrics are not UNcomfortable. It's just that the Wedge is amazing in this regard. Right now, it is the only symmetric mouthpiece that moves me like this.

Dr. Dave is providing more grist for the mill. That is a good thing, in the long run.

Peace.

Nick
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DrDave
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your feedback. I was amazed when I checked the forum this morning and found that you had already posted!

I have a couple of comments.

The full credit for the workmanship on the pieces goes to my two partners in production. The tops are manufactured by a privately owned CNC machine shop here in Vancouver called Focus Manufacturing. There are 3 guys in the shop, and the owner, Patrick Schiess has been incredibly helpful in getting the Wedge off the ground. Before I turned up at Patrick’s door a few months ago he did not know what a trumpet mouthpiece looked like, let alone how to make one, so we have both been on quite a steep learning curve.

The final surface prep and plating is done by a small, 3rd generation family owned and operated plating business, ACME plating. The folks at AMCE have also been fabulous. They epitomize what a small family business can and should be.

Finally, Terry Warburton gets full credit for his backbore system. It is interesting that you prefer Terry’s KT backbore to the larger ones, which to my surprise were very popular with players at the TMEA. Some people were getting the best performance our of 11 and 11* backbores. The difference in performance with different backbores, and difficulty in predicting preferences in this area, highlights the advantages of the modular system. As it is there are 72 models of Wedge. Can you imagine if I had to manufacture 20 times that many because of the number of different integrated backbores? For a small guy like me running this thing off the side of his desk at home it would not have been possible. Terry, and Ken Titmus at Warburton have been very helpful every step of the way, providing specs, technical advice, and making me a Warburton distributor so that I can use his backbores. There is no reason in the world they should have done that, other than just being kind. I owe those guys a lot.

By the way, Terry tried a Wedge at the TMEA. He sort of thinks it is comfortable, but he prefers to play it sideways. Not a convert

Bob Odneal has a bunch to try as well. I have no idea yet if he likes them. I am hoping he will post one way or the other so people can gain from his perspective as well.

Cheers.
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NickD
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:39 pm    Post subject: Video demo of my cornet mpce choosing process... Reply with quote

I documented the process of choosing a cornet mouthpiece from the Wedge collection. There are no Asymmetric cornet or flugel mouthpieces, so these new Wedge's have proven to be a wonderful alternative for me in that regard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V_YGb2XrYw

I now play the Wedge 1.5 A with a Warburton 9 cornet BB on it.

I also have this clip on my Online Lessons page under the FAQ's section near the bottom. There is bit of text there that I don't have room for on Youtube. It is not an FAQ yet, but I suspect it will be.

http://www.nickdrozdoff.com

As I continue to experiment with the trumpet rigs, I'll post more.

Peace.

Nick
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Video demo of my cornet mpce choosing process... Reply with quote

NickD wrote:
I documented the process of choosing a cornet mouthpiece from the Wedge collection. There are no Asymmetric cornet or flugel mouthpieces, so these new Wedge's have proven to be a wonderful alternative for me in that regard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V_YGb2XrYw

I now play the Wedge 1.5 A with a Warburton 9 cornet BB on it.

I also have this clip on my Online Lessons page under the FAQ's section near the bottom. There is bit of text there that I don't have room for on Youtube. It is not an FAQ yet, but I suspect it will be.

http://www.nickdrozdoff.com

As I continue to experiment with the trumpet rigs, I'll post more.

Peace.

Nick


This is really cool stuff, Nick. I was wondering if you were going to check these out.

I'd love to hear what you think about the differences in the "concepts" of each piece. I am one who could never play Lynch's pieces well but the moment I tried the Wedge I was hooked.

Hope you're well,
-T
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mike ansberry
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried a 3D and a 3EC for a couple of weeks. They are very interesting mouthpieces, but did not work for me. I suspect that I play with too much pressure. Having that pressure focused on the center of the lips was uncomfortable for me.

Dr. Dave is a very accomodating, easy person to get along with. He gave me some extra time to try to work it out. The whole experience cost me absolutely nothing since he refunded both the mouthpiece cost and the shipping. He is a class act. Everyone ought to try his mouthpiece. It is a risk free trial.

I would like to give it another shot, perhaps early next January when I can take some time with the pieces and don't have any pressing gigs.
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NickD
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:55 pm    Post subject: Hey, Trent, and folks! Reply with quote

Yeah, Trent, I spotted these and got really curious. I found that I could play them immediately. I like both the cushion rims and the regular rims. I have asked Dr. Dave for a couple of different sizes. The 1.5A on the cornet really works for me, but it is quite wide. There seems to be something about the shape that makes wide feel yet wider. I can can still hit a DHC on the 1.5A on cornet, though I can't imagine why I would want to. However, if I want to a bit of a Nat Adderly thing, bringing the heat once in a while might be nice. Hence my interest in the 3A for cornet.

Now, on to trumpet. I can hit a pretty solid F over DHC on my Asymmetric lead model. I do have to adjust the embouchure on it to bring out the lower register, but it is completely manageable for me. I wanted to see if I could find a bit more flexibility with the Wedges. As per a previous post, I found I was able to muster a more solid lower register with the wedge - using a 1.5FC. I could also mange the extreme upper register nicely as well. It is a bit of work, though, and I suspect I was bumping into the wider feel for these mouthpieces. I am looking forward to getting my hands on some smaller sizes for the FC cups. Given what I have experienced already, and given the nature Helmholtz resonator acoustics, I expect this to balance things nicely!

These rims are extremely comfortable, and yet they don't seem slippery. You can get a nice grip on them. If one size if giving you a bit of trouble, try another. Also, try some different backbores. This is a serious affect on the response of these rigs. The number of permutations and combinations is quite high, and each one is worth a try.

I can't recommend this enough! Give these a try. Thess are the most innovative mouthpieces I've seen in, well, 8 years!

Nick
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TAMUmpower
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got off the phone with Dave and I have a 1.5cc and a 1.5c coming. Well I think thats the two. one has a normal rim and one has the standard so I think those are the ones he told me. I cant believe I missed TMEA this year when The Wedge was there!
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mulligan stew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, a few quick thoughts. You recently sent me a 5C and a 5CC (and a 7 & 8 bb). I left you a quick voicemail Friday.

I've been using a GR 65MX and a Monette B6. I love them both, they feel very similar to me, and they give me a good upper register, strong low end and great flexibility. I tried the Wedge out of curiosity.

The rim felt fine to me. Not nearly as odd as I thought. It is a sound design principle and it works. In fact it is very comfortable.

But...the sound was not nearly as round and full as on the above two mouthpieces. Both the 5C and the 5CC, with either backbore, felt and blew smaller than the Monette and the GR. The low end was really weak. The cup felt markedly shallower. In short, they felt like shallow peashooters...a lot of resistance, small sound, too much work.

I'm convinced that the problem here is simply cup size and rim diameter, not rim shape. When I get back to the US in two weeks I'll be in touch about trying to get a bigger one. I thought these notes might help you match players' expectations a little more closely.

Thanks,
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DrDave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Scott,

From what you describe the first thing I would want to check is that you are playing it in the correct orientation. Quite a few people have tried to use the mouthpiece sideways and have been a bit disappointed with the results

If you are playing it correctly then you need a bigger size, and perhaps a bigger backbore. Email me when you get back and we'll try to figure out what might help. Or, the Wedge just might not be for you.

Cheers.
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mulligan stew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was definitely using the proper orientation--the high points top and bottom and sloping shoulders to the sides.

I wold like to try a bigger cup and maybe diameter--or your rim on a Monette B6.

We'll talk!
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DrDave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Scott,

Good, at least we know the orientation was correct. For sure you need a larger size. People switching to a Wedge from a B4 usually like the Wedge 3 size, so I thought the 5 rim would be a good match for the B6, but I seem to have got it wrong. Or, if the rim feels OK you might just need a B cup and large backbore. Some players really like a large backbore with the Wedge. I had players gaining a step or two in range at the TMEA by moving up from a 7 to a 10 BB. It was a bit unexpected.

Thanks for your post. This is all good information for players to have.

Cheers.
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mulligan stew wrote:
I was definitely using the proper orientation--the high points top and bottom and sloping shoulders to the sides.

I wold like to try a bigger cup and maybe diameter--or your rim on a Monette B6.

We'll talk!

Scott,

When I first got the Wedge I felt a bit similar to you about the sound and spread. I think initially I had far greater success on this piece than you seem to have (after trying Prana pieces I'm not a believer of "working" into a moutpiece over LONG periods of time). I give pieces a few weeks before making my judgment. Not 6 months like I tried with my Pranas (when everyone was telling me I sounded better on Standard Monettes)

The Wedge is slightly different than other pieces I've tried. Coming off large Monettes with giant throats also led me to this. I think for you a B cup would work nicely. I felt initially like the C, CC, and D cups Dr. Dave sent me were all smaller in sound profile and outward projection. I didn't have issues in my low register (In fact the Low F#s barked out of my horns).

Once I figured out what backbore worked on my horn (an 8* is magical on my Selmer, an 80series 7 on my Selmer 80J) it transformed the tops tremendously. I gained volume and "sizzle". That magic ring around the sound that makes it carry.

Now that I've had time and forced myself not to switch back it's magical how much MORE sound I can get out on my loud gigs. My sound seems to really pop in with the Wedge... combining them with my new Warburton q-m backbore has also revolutionized my sizzle and sound. I can get through 5 hour "GB" gigs where I was hurting before.

It could be a backbore match, length of mpc/gap match in your horn, or like Dr. Dave says you might not be a responder with your particular approach in playing. I shortened one of my Warburton backbores to a Monette Bb length and that also opened up the low register a bit for me (but also raised the 5th and 6th partials a little too much... everything is a balance act!)

I'm out of town until Sunday but if you'd like to chat send me a PM and I'll get back to you asap. Sorry I missed your PM while I was on vacation the past 10 days.

Cheers,

T
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mulligan stew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Trent! Thanks for all the good info.

Admittedly, I've only had the pieces for a few days. I'm out of the country for the next two weeks and am not taking them, so Dave is giving me a little more time after I get back.

I too don't really believe in long acclimation periods, but more than a few days is warranted. And I also tried a Prana at one point. It never worked at all...but the B6 is a lovely piece.

If I can get that B6 fluidity from low F# to double C on a Wedge I'm all for it. Oddly, I do think I'm a "responder"...the Wedge seems almost designed for players who use a lot of forward pucker and compression. I'm also intrigued with how it works with players who use Reinhardt methodology, as I do (does the rim shape help with one's pivot? or does it hinder it? My initial take is that it aids the pivot).

I'll go to the site and look into the B cups.

Thanks again!
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Bill W
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Scott:

I must second Trent's advice about giving the Wedges a bit more time. I am, also, a very happy Monette User and , when I tried Dr. Dave's 1.5BC and 3BC cups , compared to my Monette B2S3, I noted the same issues as you, less sound and more resistance. However, since my last post I have been continuing my experimentation and noted that I had always been starting my trial sessions playing on the Monette and then playing the Wedges, so I decided to "go the other way" so to speak and I have noticed a big difference. Now, I am getting a much bigger, darker sound as well as more comfort and better articulation on the Wedge. I still have quite a bit more resistance though and Dr. Dave and I have discussed trying a 3BC with a larger throat. Also, as Nick suggests, additional backbore trials are called for.

Bill
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