New Mouthpiece: The Wedge

[DrDave]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for joining the discussion. It is quite common for players to describe a similar transition in their sound as they spend time on the Wedge. Having said that, I still think it will be an interesting experiment to have you try the 3BC on a 10 backbore with a 24 throat. My own bench top CNC machine, which I would use to center the reamer, has broken down (again!!) and this time will be need to be replaced. So on Monday I dropped a mouthpiece and backbore off at the big shop to have it done. I hope to have it back soon, and will send it to you for evaluation.

I am also starting work on a line of Wedge backbores that will include a heavy version designed for players who like the darker sound and stability provided by the added mass.

Cheers.
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

[trumpetdon]

Hi everyone,

As Dr. Dave is interested in customer feedback and the sharing of results both positive and negative, I have decided to share the story of my Wedge trial.

I am extremely pleased with the custom mouthpieces I have used for several years designed for me by Gary Radke. Still, after reading the many posts here on TH, I could not resist temptation and I wanted to give the Wedge a trial.

My GR pieces are custom, but I believe they are approximately in the 665 range. As a comparison, I also use Parke-Merkelo cups with a 640 rim (measured at the threads the way Parke does) on rotary horns, used to play the Laskey 70 range, and played a Bach 2C for decades. I also have an application for the Curry 70H rim. My GR, Parke and “most” Laskey 70 rims feel very slightly larger in diameter than the 2C.

The Wedge Mouthpieces felt good immediately. I tried a 1.5C and 3C over several weeks, and later, on Dr. Dave’s recommendation, a 1.5CC. The 1.5C diameter was very close, and the 3C a hair smaller than I am used to. While the 1.5C was more comfortable, the design of the 3C seemed be more evolved in subtle ways regarding very soft attacks and slurs. From what I have read much of the prototype work was done on the 3C.

I had a number of backbores to try: Warburton 5*, 6, 7*, 8, 9 and Q, plus Bach, Parke, and Kanstul backbores.

For me, the Wedge did not work out, but we gave it a good trial.

I did have bigger volume and fullness on E, F and F# above high C. To play a high F with the ease of a C, but the fullness of an F an octave lower was stunning.

My challenges were:
1) Loss of endurance. After 20 minutes I was temporarily numb. FWIW, and I am not sure if this is a factor, I have an overbite as well as both upper and lower teeth angled out. I play off center, and use pucker as I ascend. The sensation was that the mouthpiece rim was pushing into my upper lip as I puckered. If I rested a minute, I could switch back to a conventional mouthpiece and would be fine.

2) Intonation on C trumpet at the top of the staff (F. F#, G) was a big problem. Sharp beyond control. Dr. Dave told me he had some other reports of this. Larger backbores did not help. Very small backbores did help, but a “symphonic” C trumpet sound was compromised. I tried Bach-Malone, and German Destino C Trumpets with the same results.

3) Low and middle register fullness with the 1.5C and 3C were not what I needed. This was better with the 1.5CC, but the upper register ease was lost.

I kept at it, hoping I could find a way to solve the endurance issue. That is why we tried the 1.5CC. It helped a bit, but not drastically. Ultimately I decided that even if I could learn to play the rim, I still had the C trumpet intonation issue to deal with, so I called off the experiment.

Dr. Dave provided me with the superb service that many others have written about. It was a great experience. I will continue to follow the development of the mouthpieces and I wish him much success.

Don

[DrDave]

Hi Don,

Thanks for posting. The kind of information you provide is a valuable addition to the discussion, and helps to inform other players about the challenges some players might encounter with the Wedge. After working at it together for several weeks I think it was clear to both of us that the Wedge just was not a good match for your setup, as much as we both wanted it to work.

I continue to work on new rims. I now have a model with no lateral dip, and a model with an angled rim (as an alternative to a bent backbore) that look interesting in the computer model. I have not been able to cut prototypes because my machine is down and in need of replacement. Perhaps some future generation of Wedge might work better for you.

All the best!
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

[Trumpeter585]

I got the pieces yesterday, very nice! The 7CC feels like a Bach 10 1/2c and the 5CC feels between a Bach 7c and 10 1/2c. The 5cc feels a little small for me and a little shallow also. But the feel is like nothing else I have ever played before! I'm thinking maybe a 3BC. I liked the 6 BB better than the 7BB.
Thanks Brian
_________________
Getzen Renaissance
Besson Brevete Flugelhorn

[DrDave]

Hello all,
Last night I attended the Chris Botti concert in Vancouver. The concert was excellent. For the last number Chris did an un-miked number with just the piano. He sounded great on and off the mike.

I had contacted his management company a few days ago to see if I could hand deliver a mouthpiece. The person I spoke to said that would be fine, and that he would give Jeremy, the tour manager, a heads up.

During the autograph signing after the concert I introduced myself to Jeremy, who had stepped aside from the crowd for a moment. He indeed was expecting me. He was very pleasant and welcoming. After the crowds were gone he introduced me to Chris.

Chris was completely charming and gracious, and absolutely genuine. We chatted about his equipment, about the Wedge, and how the whole Wedge thing got started for about 10 minutes. He offered to show me his mouthpiece. He buzzed the mouthpieces I had brought and chose the one that seemed about the right size, but the throat on the Wedge is tighter than his. I told him I had no expectation that he would like the Wedge, given his preference for vintage equipment, but that it would be great if he would just take one to try. He said he would do that, and asked me how much he owed me for the mouthpiece.

I took down his credit card information and…Just kidding.

I said “You must be joking”, and left it with him.

I am quite certain Chris will not prefer the Wedge to his current gear. He has a passion for vintage equipment and the Wedge is clearly at the opposite end of that spectrum. But I could not resist the opportunity to actually meet him and put a Wedge in his hands.

I cannot overemphasize that the welcome I received from Chris and his management team was friendly and professional beyond any reasonable expectation. I am sure Chris was exhausted. He had just met a few hundred people after his concert and was leaving on a flight to Poland in about 6 hours. But he took the time to meet me and look at my mouthpieces, and was genuinely nice about it. Not every player in his position would have done that. He is absolutely a first class act.

Cheers.
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

[Tim McGinley]

Wow Dave!
What a great experience!!! Never mind the chance to see such a great concert or even the opportunity to meet Chris Botti but; in addition to the warm welcome and hospitality, the chance to also share your work with one of the modern day greats!

Wouldn't it be a hoot to see him playing a track on the Wedge, eh?

Thanks for sharing the story!

By the way, how is the flugel line coming along? I am anxious!! Also thinking about switching rim sizes but I will contact you privately about that.

Take Care,
T-

[DrDave]

Hi Tim,

It was a great experience.

The first flugel model has been designed. I am at this point just on hold until we are ready to do a run in order to cut the first one for testing. Hopefully I'll have an early model in a month or two. I'll update things here and on the website as we go.

Shoot me an email about changing sizes.

Cheers.
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

[JCube]

I tried a Wedge at the West Chester Trumpet Festival last month. Pat was really helpful. I've been playing a Warburton 4SV anchor grip and Q bb. I tried the 3E,ECC,D,C,A tops. The 3D really worked well and the 3A with a 10 bb gave me a near flugel sound.

When I ordered that day I screwed up and ordered a 3E. The sound on the E is a bit strident (my tone is a little bright to begin with) and I found that it cut out on me in the mid-high register. I emailed Dr. Dave who prompltly shipped out a 3D. I've tried it on 1 gig and found it to be extremely comfortable. WHile it hasn't added any notes to my range (actually I lost the squeekers above DHC) I found that the sound was much fuller throughought the range of the horn. On the first tune of the first set I ended on a high Bb and then went up to the F. The F felt very secure. Even though the tune was fading out I slid up to the double Bb and sustained it and even had a nice little decrescendo on it. Felt nice!

The best thing I can say is that everything seems to slot much better. Richer overtones throughout the horn. I'm using it with a Q-m bb now. I'm keeping the 3A 10bb combo for time when I don't feel like lugging my flugel with me. I'll probably send the 3E back.

BTW I would be interested in beta testing a slanted model. I have a fairly pronounced underbite and play upstream (Type II/IV for you DSR guys-and yes it does seem to help with my pivot Muligan Stew). I try not to tip my head when I play so my horn tilts upwads. Not a major problem since I use a wireless mic but water does tend to pool in the mp and leadpipe from time to time. An old friend of mine made a slanted mouthpiece for me when I was in high school out of stainless steel. Wish I still had it

Great job Dr. Dave. Too bad you didn't develop this when the exchange rate was more favorable If I get back to Vancouver this year I'll have to look you up!
_________________
Jose Johnson
http://www.josejohnson.com
http://www.myspace.com/josejohnsonmusic

[oceandrive]

Thanks for your lines regarding the wedge.
I ordered a 3c and 3cc and I am something between a IIIB and a IV.
Sometimes I feel to be a 4 and then a 3b.
Actually I dont know what I am re the 2 categories.
Anyways.....your experiences are interesting for me re the wedge.
Thanks,
Chris from Hamburg, Germany

[NickD]

Well, I'm in! I decided to add my name to the endorsements for these fine mouthpieces. I like unconventional mouthpieces. I wanted to have something on my list that I could comfortably recommend to folks that more people would have success with and hit a comfort zone sooner. These mouthpieces fit that bill perfectly.

You will NEVER find a more comfortable rim that is this flexible. Most traditional "comfortable" rims tend to restrict the ability to move your lips as needed. NOT the wedge! Some traditional "comfortable" rims are a bit slippery not allowing you to get a grip. NOT the wedge! The wedge rims achieve what I feel is the best combination of comfort and grip. They also can produce a great range of timbres on one mouthpiece.

I have put up another clip with some more experimentation with Wedges. I left the clams and everything in so you can be part of my development process. I really love the 5FC, but I may try some different back bores as I get used to these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neBP03XyMSs

Here is a side benefit to the Wedge. Dave told me this could happen, and it does. When I go back to the mouthpiece I've been using for sometime, I have NO difficulty making the switch. In other words. using the WEDGE WON'T mess your embouhure up at all! It may, in fact, IMPROVE your set!

I can't recommend these highly enough. You really owe it to yourself to try these. You will be stunned at how well they play right off the bat!

I'll post more as I get more adept at making best use of these fine mouthpieces. That always takes a week or two, and I'm in my second week.

Peace!

Nick Drozdoff
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Nick Drozdoff - Getzen Endorsing Artist
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[patdublc]

Nick has said it all. The Wedge really does improve your setup and doesn't create a difficulty switching back to another mouthpiece. Besides my Wedge 3's, I occasionally use a Curry 60TF & a Marcinkiewicz custom flugel piece. I expect that to stop over the next few months when Dave rolls out his flugel pieces and a few more options.

And, I'd like to echo one more time what so many have said, Dr Dave is just fantastic to deal with. From his day job, to his work with Power Kicks, to his charitable donations, and his money back guarantee, the guy is just an endless source of positive energy. His only known flaw is his weakness for buying trumpets...........lol.............and that's pretty much an epidemic on this forum anyway.

pat
_________________
Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models.

[NickD]

Folks, I'm playing the jazz solo chair and usually a bit of split lead as well with the Chicago Grandstand Big Band this Sunday at Fitzgerald's. This is March 9 from 6:00 PM to 9:30 PM. There will be a junior high band opeing for us, so the joint will be jumping!

I'll be using my new Wedge 5FC with a Q BB on it. I'll probably use it on most of the tunes. I'm still getting used to it, so I'll keep my older gear there, just in case. Again, switching back and forth is NOT an issue with Wedges. However, after my practice session last night, I doubt I'll feel any need to switch. The addition of the Q BB yeilds a setup that just wails.

I'll also bringing along the entire kit I've been testing. I don't know how many Chicago folks are reading here at TH, but feel free to drop on by. It might be a crazy night, but, if we can sort it out, you can take a quick look at these mouthpieces.

I am planning on getting a "trumpeters tupperware" gathering, so to speak, so that a bunch of folks can take some comfortable time to test a few of these mouthpieces. I need to get a location sorted out (Evanston Band and Orchestra, or Ellman's Music, or some place like that...). I'll post again when I can pull that off.

Hope to see some folks at Fitz this Sunday.

Peace!

Nick
_________________
Nick Drozdoff - Getzen Endorsing Artist
http://www.nickdrozdoff.com
http://www.getzen.com/
http://www.youtube.com/nickdrozdoff
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https://soundcloud.com/nick-drozdoff

[TAMUmpower]

Ok, just received my Wedge 1.5c and 1.5cc in the mail today and just finished a 20min session trying them out. First impressions

1. Yes its comfortable, i mean if i press like a junior high kid reaching for a G above the staff it still feels soft. Very impressive
2. More depth to my tone
3. High range requires less effort, gained a half step.
4. Not quite sure yet but I seem to like the cushion rim better
5. I think that the 1.5 may be a bit big. It feels like when I go higher that im having to physically spiral curl my top and bottom lips. I mean, its more of a change than i should have, and it feels very similar to what I have to do with my lips when I try to play on a bach 1 rim. Its just a bit big. I think a size smaller rim would do a lot for my high register for this peice.
6. As advertised the C feels deeper than expected. I think I may need a size shallower cup for the feel I like.
7. I dont have any air leak problems as were advertised as being a possibility, in fact i dont really notice the cup feeling narrow width wise at all.
8. Articulation is much better. Both single and multiple

Ok enough numbering. This is the real deal, I dont really notice the change in shape at all besides noticing that i feel more of the mouthpice on the top and bottom where the high parts are. A few notes are in different places but overall its a good piece.

Dave, do I need to call "the factory" tomorrow or do you agree that a 3Dc and a 3Cc might be the next thing for me to try. Since my warburton equipment has come in I do prefer their 4 rim but I might try a 5, I also tried their SV cup for lead work and really like it. Do you think I should try a wedge 3 and a wedge 5 rim to make sure of my diameter. I wouldnt want to have to do a 3rd shipment if this next one isnt right.

Matt Morris

[DrDave]

Hi Matt,

The 1.5 might be too big, and if you give me a call tomorrow we can discuss options. We can certainly try some other sizes. I am presenting at Grand Rounds at 7 am (pesky day job) so I won't be able to answer until mid morning Pacific time.

Many players seem to eventually settle on a size that feels a bit smaller than their current setup, while still reporting a sound that is fuller in all registers, so we probably have some room to move. It can be a bit difficult to predict size because the Wedge tends to feel a bit smaller than it really is. I think this is because of the narrow side rim with the medially shifted high point. I have also learned that two players can be on the same conventional mouthpiece, and try the same Wedge, and one will describe the relative size of the Wedge as larger while the other feels it to be smaller. So player factors seem to partially determine how the Wedge feels. Given that many players settle on a subjectively smaller piece I tend to agree that a smaller piece might be in order.

Having said that, it early in your experience with the Wedge, and you might find after a few days that you settle right in. In any event, from what you describe, especially with a piece that might be a bit big for you, you seem to be a "Wedge Responder" and will probably grow into a full blown Wedge Head in no time at all.

Cheers
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com

[Tim McGinley]

As a side reply for TAMU,
I grew fond of the Warburton 4 series and found that the wedge 3 series was a bit larger than I had anticipated. However, the Wedge 5 rim fit like a glove! I have been playing a 5DC for a couple of months now and love it! I have since ordered a 5CC and 5AC and am eager to add them to the collection. The DC is a great "transition" piece. With the slightly more "reserved" cup it is easy to get around the horn while maintaining a full sound. I would not call it a "lead" piece but it shows characteristics of a commercial piece as well as a traditional cup. Now that I have spent some time acclimating to the 5DC I look forward to other cups.
I hope this helps!!!

[TrentAustin]

Here's a recent clip of the Wedge 3c/q-m backbore from a live gig... this is raw recorded on my zoom.

http://media.putfile.com/big224-sonarewedge
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This acct will be deactivated as of March 2021. email info@austincustombass.com

[TrentAustin]

I just put a link on the "jazz/commercial" page where I'll host all of my new Zoom Wedge clips.

Check the sounds out at the link below:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75499

I can't believe how well these pieces continue to work for me. Playing again is so much fun and PRACTICING is really amazing. Before the Wedge after 10-20 minutes my chops tingled with irritation. Now I get the same "tingle" after 2 hours of playing. I'm planning on doing a new video about my wedge "chronicles" on Saturday with a friend's good camera. Should be interesting...

Best,

T
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[John Miconi]

Trent,

You sound fantastic on those Wedge mpcs!!! I think the "Money" mpc is the Wedge 3B. YOU can do just about everything and anything on that one mpc. The sound is just phenomenal.

I am awaiting my Wedgeees 5C, 5CC, 7C, 7CC along with a 7* and 11* backbore that Dave is sending me for a trial.

Isn't it great not having to worry about the equipment anymore?
_________________
John Miconi

[John Miconi]

I also want to send kudos out to Nick D as well. What a wall of sound you are putting out with those Wedge mpcs. For me to play that Maynard snipit I may need a Wedge(ee) LOL!!!

Your cornet playing is killer. What a great mpc combination. As I eluded in a earlier post, I'm waiting on my Wedge mpc as well. Great playing!!!
_________________
John Miconi

[DrDave]

Tim is a good example of how hard it is to predict size. I played on Warburton 4 rims before the Wedge. The first Wedge was in fact a modified Warburton 4MD. Now I play a Wedge 3C for most of my playing, with the 3D being the other choice.

I would have predicted that Tim would prefer a Wedge 3, not a 5. However, players interact with the Wedge in a way that is someties hard to predict based on conventional mouthpieces. That is why we have the size trial program. At any given time I have dozens of tops floating around out there on approval. It drives my dear wife Liz nuts, because she has to keep track of it all. Like my signature says, a VERY understanding wife...

Cheers.
_________________
Dr. Dave
www.wedgemouthpiece.com