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Looking for a C trumpet mouthpiece...


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Adam V
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Looking for a C trumpet mouthpiece... Reply with quote

I used to use a 1-1/2C 24/24 with my Bach Chicago, but I recently downsized mouthpieces. I now use a Reeves 42M on my Bb, and I want something around the same diameter for use on C trumpet. I was looking into a Mt. Vernon 6B with a 24 backbore, because on the Kanstul comparator it looks like it would work well with my Reeves piece.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks.
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ExtraLargeBore
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bach 6BM, comes stock with a 26 throat and 24 backbore.
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Adam V
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ExtraLargeBore wrote:
Bach 6BM, comes stock with a 26 throat and 24 backbore.


But it doesn't have a Mt. Vernon rim...
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't you like your main mouthpiece - 42M - on the C? Do they not "get along?" I know some people have found a really good match between a certain horn - not just a key but a specific horn - and a certain mouthpiece. However, unless it doesn't seem to jive, I don't change. Except with my beater horn (with which I use my beater 1C), I use the same thing - 3C - on my all my horns - Bb, C, Eb, Cornet, even piccolo sometimes (a bit mixed results on the last one). If something works why change?

If it doesn't work - you could just mate your Reeves rim to something with a different cup or backbore. Maintaining as much consistency is probably the best policy.
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Adam V
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 42M produces a very commercial sound; sounds too bright on C trumpet, the bite makes articulations not quite right for orchestral music, and because of the resistance of the C trumpet the 42M feels stuffy on it.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that's a good reason. Maybe a C or B cup with the 42 might work, and a more open backbore.

I'm not sure if changing rim diameter has a big impact on the tone in general. If the rim is comfy and works, them maybe mating it to something deeper and freer might get you what you're looking for. Maybe. That's why Reeves and others use modular pieces - to change depth and/or the blow while maintaining a consistent feel.

(corrected spelling error)
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Last edited by Crazy Finn on Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there someone in the LA area you go to for a consultation on mouthpieces--in person? You seem to spend a lot of time asking people who don't know you or can't hear you about what mouthpiece to use.

Kent
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ExtraLargeBore
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam V wrote:
ExtraLargeBore wrote:
Bach 6BM, comes stock with a 26 throat and 24 backbore.


But it doesn't have a Mt. Vernon rim...


Comparing the 6B and MTV6B, the differences are well within what I would say are consistency variations. I have 15 1Cs that all feel different. I have MT vernons that feel different. The Bach 6BM would be you cheapest best option to try. You would at least know if it is close and worth finding a MTV 6B.

A Bach 6 might be good to try as well.

You can't pick a mouthpiece by looking at a picture of the rim contour. If I did that, I would waste even more $ that I do on mouthpiece. Buy some cheap used ones and try them.
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butxifxnot
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why wouldn't a mouthpiece work the same with a Bb and a C? I know Monette folk have a cow when you tell them you're playing a C trumpet on one of their Bb mouthpieces. Could someone explain it to a yokel who plays stuff like the Tomasi on a Bb?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oxleyk wrote:
Isn't there someone in the LA area you go to for a consultation on mouthpieces--in person? You seem to spend a lot of time asking people who don't know you or can't hear you about what mouthpiece to use.

Kent

I agree. It doesn't stop me from doling out some possibly useless advice, but we all have ideas and little way to tell if they're good ones that help or bad ones that hinder.

butxifxnot wrote:
Why wouldn't a mouthpiece work the same with a Bb and a C?

Well, they're slightly different beasts - usually a Bb blows freer and the C is brighter - but essentially they should respond similarly. I'm guessing the 42M gives him a slightly bright sound on his Bb, and it's exaggerated on the C. Like I said earlier, I pretty much play a 3C on all my horns. That's why I advocate finding a mouthpiece that facilitates your playing and is flexible in terms of style and sound. Then you don't have to worry about your special "orchestra" piece, or "quintet" piece, or "concert band" piece. You just have your mouthpiece - one is all you need. Then you might actually have time to develop some facility and familiarity on it. I'm not knocking people who switch or people who are searching for the right one. I've seen very few people who actually improve while their on their mouthpiece safari. Of course, you may have to try some before you find one that works. Once you start - it's a bit of a catch 22.

Then again, what do I know?
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the OP: If you like your 42M rim, then get a 42 rim with different specifications. Why if you like this rim would you try and find a mouthpiece of different brand and rim .... IMO doesn't make much sense.

You don't have to play a Mt. Vernon to play C trumpet.

Bob reeves offer different specifications for the same rim. What looks like might work would be a 42 rim, C cup, and s backbore.

http://www.bobreeves.com/products/trumpet/index.htm

To those that are wondering why some people switch pieces for Bb and C: There are physical differences between a Bb and a C trumpet so what is needed to balance out and have a decent playing C trumpet that plays "in tune" (which is the biggest difference) is a slightly different mouthpiece. Some may find a Bb and C that are "exactly" the same... and those people are lucky, but few. You don't have to dramatically alter the mouthpiece like go from a 7c to 1X... but some alterations might be good (other than rim).

Also, what you do on a C trumpet is different, it is orchestral (most likely). You wouldn't play your commercial mouthpiece in an orchestra (to play something like Mahler) ... you wouldn't play a Bb mouthpiece on your piccolo. "Use the right tool for the job"

Not knocking those people who don't switch, there are many that don't. If you don't want to switch, I suggest finding a mouthpiece that works for your primary (if you want to be in an orchestra... find one for you C trumpet) and switch as needed.

I would argue however, that the "perfect mouthpiece match" for all around playing on a Bb, will not be "as good a match" on the C trumpet and vice versa. Some people might find a middle ground between the two.

Peter Bond (met opera) wrote: The mouthpiece (most orchestra players have bigger than standard backbores put in, which improves pitch and high register response).

The perfect way to stop any safari: pick a brand that offers a wide variety of variation on specific components. Hone in on the rim that feels great immediately: offers the most response, is comfortable, allows you to play without even feeling it. Once the rim is picked, then keep that rim for all your mouthpiece (excluding the much higher horns.... usually just piccolo). Play with the other components... sticking with the same brand. Then forget about it.
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hellbrawl
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Everyone!

I have the same issue here with my C trumpet,
I recently downsized my Bb mouthpiece to a Yamaha Shew Jazz mouthpiece(I must say I really love it), but the combination between the medium-shallow cup and sound characteristics of the C trumpet clearly doesn't sound right. I am considering getting myself a Bach 3B or a 6B/6BM for trial. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks for listening!
Taavi
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Adam V
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellbrawl wrote:
Hi Everyone!

I am considering getting myself a Bach 3B or a 6B/6BM for trial. Any thoughts or suggestions?


I went ahead and ordered a Bach 6BM and it should come in the mail tomorrow (if UPS delivers on Christmas day).

I'll let you know how it works out for me.
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Blue Trane
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellbrawl wrote:
Hi Everyone!

I have the same issue here with my C trumpet,
I recently downsized my Bb mouthpiece to a Yamaha Shew Jazz mouthpiece(I must say I really love it), but the combination between the medium-shallow cup and sound characteristics of the C trumpet clearly doesn't sound right. I am considering getting myself a Bach 3B or a 6B/6BM for trial. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks for listening!
Taavi


I'm not familiar with the Shew Jazz mouthpiece but if its rim size is closer to a 3C rim then try the 3B but if it's closer to 6B then try the 6B/6BM. I've used a 3B and it worked very nicely but I prefer a bigger rim 1 1/2 C with a drilled out backbore. My normal mouthpiece is 1 1/2 C stock on the Bb. I also play a 3C or 3D on the commercial or jazz side. My piccolo mouthpiece is a 7E opened up some. In general you want something with a similar rim but deeper or drilled out to get the sound big like on the Bb.
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hellbrawl
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is really hard to tell which rim is more similar to the Jazz piece.

Theoretically, yamahas web site tells me that that the rim diameter of the Shew Jazz mp should be 16.85 mm.
How can this be?
In this case it would sort of equate with a Bach 1 1/2, although it should be a 3c cup.
Anyway, I guess the 3b would be closest option, but on the other hand it really interests me how the 6BM, with the bigger backbore and throat sounds like.
And I pretty much can't tell the difference with the Kanstul comparator anyway...
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lburrows
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi hellbrawl

Bach mouthpieces (at least pre-strike) were generally larger than specified.

On an alternative version of the Kanstul comparator, that doesn't currently seem to be available, the Yamaha Shew Jazz was included.

It maps perfectly over the Bach 3C, apart from having a slightly rounder rim contour. I have no idea how the throat and backbore compare to a Bach 3C.

I would therefore go for the Bach 3B.

All the best

Lou
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Adam V
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lburrows wrote:
On an alternative version of the Kanstul comparator, that doesn't currently seem to be available, the Yamaha Shew Jazz was included.


Try this:

http://mysite.verizon.net/dogfish3/kanstul_mpc/CompareJR_FF.html
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janet842
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're able, you might consider a trip up to Salem, Oregon to meet with Jaimie Hall, one of the GR Mouthpiece consultants (probably the closest one to you). They specialize in helping players produce the same sound and uniform response out of all the horns they own - pic, Bb, C, Eb, etc. When your playing reaches the level where you recognize the need for uniformity it's time to put yourself in the hands of a pro and quit the mouthpiece safari. You won't regret it. Jamie is also a Bach player so he will understand the issues you are dealing with.

A safari just switches out one mouthpiece at a time and that mouthpiece will very likely only be suitable for one trumpet and none of the others. A GR Consultation evaluates all your trumpets and the mouthpieces you use for them at one sitting. That's the only real way to find uniformity.

I saw your other post about issues with your Bach C -- it's possible that Jaimie may be able to resolve that for you by putting you on a different mouthpiece. That would be far cheaper than buying a new trumpet. If you switch mouthpieces and still ultimately find that the C trumpet just isn't working for you, then go shopping for a new C.

Janet
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, how's the 6BM working out? I played one one my trumpet for a year or two and still do on cornet when I'm using it in a mixed section. I think it's a very good off-the-shelf mouthpiece. For C trumpet, though, I've been using a Bach 2C I recently bought with a 25 throat and 24 backbore. It really had a nice sound on some Christmas gigs I played this year.
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lburrows
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam V wrote:
lburrows wrote:
On an alternative version of the Kanstul comparator, that doesn't currently seem to be available, the Yamaha Shew Jazz was included.


Try this:

http://mysite.verizon.net/dogfish3/kanstul_mpc/CompareJR_FF.html


Great!!

Thanks very much for this.

Very much appreciated.

All the best

Lou
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