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Mouthpiece Comparison Chart


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dqjazz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Mouthpiece Comparison Chart Reply with quote

Does anyone have a link or can direct me to a link for a mouthpiece comparison chart.






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richardwy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/index.php

See "Specs Hub."
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Pastor Joe
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ibowtie.com/tmptmpccharts.html
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the buzz
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kanstul Mouthpiece Comparator
http://www.kanstul.net/mpcJN/Compare/CompareIE.HTM
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gtromble
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone find these charts remotely useful? Having looked at, played and measured dozens of mouthpieces, my experience is that the published charts are useless, and probably worse. I could give lots of examples, but here's one -- look on any of these charts and see how they represent the difference between a Reeves 42 and 43 -- pretty big difference, and the 43 will be listed down with the Bach 1 1/4C. I've got at least 3 Reeves 43 rims, and they're nowhere near that big. They're also nowhere near a full 1/64 different from the 42.

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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gtromble wrote:
Does anyone find these charts remotely useful
Yes, slightly...I think they serve as a useful guide for approximate sizes. They are obviously not exact but serve as a general comparison between companies to what sizes are closeto each other. If you have that mind set I think you'll be better off. When trying different pieces, I found it helpful to at least have an idea of what I was looking for.
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lmf
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:40 am    Post subject: Are the charts useful? Reply with quote

Hi,

An informed consumer has to find knowledge somewhere? Would we be appreciably better off without the various charts? No!

When looking for mouthpieces, I read reviews, study the charts, and try the mouthpieces.

People have spent considerable time, energy and resources to help others understand mouthpieces. We'd be at a loss, not to study their mouthpiece charts, don't you think?

Best wishes!

Lloyd
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pfrank
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Comparitor gives a better idea with it's actual outlines, but the published numbers of different makers are out of wack often. There seems to be different ideas on where to measure diamiter. All I really need to know is that the Curry 60, Stork 5, Yamaha 13, Schilke 11 or 12, Kanstul-Bach NY 6, Wick 4 cornet, Stomvi 5, and Laskey 60 are all ballpark similar regardless of what the numbers say. And Curry 5 is too big and Warburton 5 is a bit small... where are the 3 bears?
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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just ordered a Marcinkiewicz 7pb (great piccolo piece if you like Marcie's pieces!) and I arrived at what I wanted by trying different pieces, knowing what I liked about them, and inspecting the mouthpiece manufacturers' charts themselves. They give you a great idea of what size difference and rim shape / size options are available on their own pieces.

I find the all-in-one charts ok for a quick comparison, but not for choosing a piece.
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DaveH
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think mouthpiece charts are worth much outside making huge generalizations. Even at that, some of those generalizations can be pretty far off base. Things are being compared in an area where there is little, if any, basis for comparison or standardization as a means of comparison.

A chart will not help you select the proper mouthpiece. All you can get from a chart are global generalizations, such as a Bach 10C should be smaller than a Bach 1C. Anything more specific or accurate than that, and you're on your own.

I've looked at charts for years, and have concluded that are next to useless for anything other than gross generalizations.

An informed consumer will NOT rely on a chart to pick the best mouthpiece. That is nothing more than a guessing game.
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gtromble
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Are the charts useful? Reply with quote

lmf wrote:
People have spent considerable time, energy and resources to help others understand mouthpieces. We'd be at a loss, not to study their mouthpiece charts, don't you think?


Lloyd -- I'd agree if the charts were accurate, but they're not. I have found the Kanstul Comparator useful, but many of the other charts simply copy inconsistent and incompatible measurements from manufacturer's tables and present them as if they were consistent and compatible. Perhaps it's a lot of work for them, but it's mostly wasted, IMO, as the data are garbage.

GT
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lmf
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:50 am    Post subject: Mouthpiece Charts Reply with quote

Hi,

You will recall that I indicated the use of charts, along with reviews and actual trying of mouthpieces.

Anybody here buy any product without reading information about it even though you disagree with what the literature says?

The charts are a guideline that's all. Some charts are better than others, but the more you read, add to it the reviews of people playing the various mouthpieces, and actually trying the mouthpieces will make you an "educated consumer" instead of one who knows very little.

It is the only way to "cut through the hype" of some of the salepersons you encounter as you travel along on your mouthpiece safari.

I realize that not everyone agrees, but that's fine.

Best wishes!

Lloyd
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skootchy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't take those charts as Gospel as some of those charts are very inaccurate. I would advice getting the specs from a manufacturers site and then looking it up on one of those charts just to see if they are accurate. Maybe we need a chart comparing the charts???
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DWHass
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all manufacturers keep the same rim on all of their mpcs in a given size. The charts will not show this but the comparator does. In oder to have the same rim on all mpcs, you can go with a 3 piece setup which could start adding up into a tidy some of money. You get a rim then various cups and backbores.

I have been toying with an idea....Use the comparator to find a rim that you like, try the mpc out to make sure it is the one you want. Then buy a bunch of the same mpcs hopefully getting them all out of the same lot or manufacturing run and have them recut into the various cups you want. Example take E cup mpcs, recut them to a no letter, A, B, C, deep V, shallow V, etc.

Maybe it would end up costing more, maybe not but then I don't have to keep assembing/disassebling pieces to get the configuration I want.

Any thoughts?
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skootchy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a three piece Giardinelli in size 10 and it works out very well. It has taught me a lot about mouthpiece design. I don't use all the permutations that I could as surprisingly some don't work as well as others. The whole idea of the same rim works well...up to a point. I find that when I get into the ES style cups I have to have a wider rim. Those cookie cutter rims just don't do those lead pieces justice. (IMHO)
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richardwy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DG,

This might be helpful too. Let's say you have an XYZ that you play on. And you're mulling over buying/trying an ABC mouthpiece.

If you don't want to phone the makers of ABC and ask directly, "what's the best match you make for a XYZ" or you don't want to send them your XYZ to have them check for sure (the #'s vary -- just because Bach says a 3C is such and such dosen't mean the one you have in your case is such and such), [b]on their websites[/b] you might find their own comparison chart. I know Stork has one.
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Jenny Lee
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:42 pm    Post subject: How to interpret mouthpiece charts Reply with quote

I'm a bit confused as to how to interpret comparison charts like this one:

https://www.mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/fox-charts.php

1. Why is there a row for "Bach Specs" at the top of each size-range table? Are these mouthpiece models from Bach for each relevant size? Is Bach meant to be a benchmark for mouthpiece sizes as represented here?

2. Is it correct to refer to these numbers as mouthpiece "models"? For example:

- The Bach model "1" measures 17.52 mm
- The Schilke models "Symphony M1", "M1d", "F1", and "D1" all measure 17.52 mm
- The Breslmair model "1CG2" measures 17.27 mm

Is this the proper way to refer to individual mouthpieces by manufacturer?

Thanks in advance for any clarification
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this fully answers your questions, Jenny, but

-Bach mouthpiece sizes are so well known, they are used in most North American mouthpiece charts as a size reference. I believe it's only the inner diameter that is meant to be referenced. The rim contour and rim width, cup depth, venturi, and backbore are usually not reliably similar. Some makers do make clones of Bachs, and they just use the same size numbers. I have a Carol 3C and a Blessing 3C. No one is going to wonder how those compare to Bach. Confusingly, there is at least one maker, Giardinelli, who does have sizes with the same numbering and lettering as Bach, but they are different size mouthpieces.

-So in that chart, all the vertical columns are meant be roughly the same inner diameter, with the Bach size at the top because of their prominence. Instead of models, people usually say Bach "sizes". However there are some variations within Bach, like the Megatone, and Vintage (or whatever they call the throwback line).

-Another issue is, how do you measure inner diameter, when all rims are somewhat curved? Different makers and tinkerers do measure it differently. Jim Fox appears to arrive at different measurements than Bach's official manual, hence the Bach Specs then Bach as Measured.
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As has been stated, mouthpiece charts are vague generalizations. Every mouthpiece maker that I have experience with that publishes a chart with how their mouthpieces compare to: Yamaha/Schilke, Bach, and Monette, do not actually compare to those mouthpieces.

For example lately I've been trying different mouthpieces that are shown on a comparison chart as corresponding to Bach 1.25 C and Monette B2S3. A Bach 1.25C and a Monette B2S3 feel quite different in the first place.
An AR resonance LC does not feel like a Bach 1.25C OR a Monette B2S3 even if it is shown on their chart as being comparable. A Lotus 1L is also shown on their chart as lining up with the Bach 1.25C and Monette B2S3 but it is different than both as well.
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, Jaw.

And the rim contour has at least as much effect on perceived diameter as the actual diameter, whose measurement, again, is difficult to standardize.
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