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Can only play up to Double G# ---need help with A and above


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Joebaca
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Can only play up to Double G# ---need help with A and above Reply with quote

I am able to play up to G# . But, when i try to get to A's and above nthing comes out...My tongue is the main problem.. I feel my tongue blocking all air from coming through...I know it seems like an easy fix. Lower the tongue and let it happen.. It's been a big challenge to fix this problem..Any suggetions!!!
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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try different lead pieces. You just might find one that will facilitate how you use and direct your airflow.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is a lapa?
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Joebaca
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lapa=Limpet

I am Portuguese and lapas is a very traditional shell fish..
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dbacon
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just don't take any gigs that go above G#....
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Joebaca
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you you Mr Bacon. You are amazing with your advise. Would like to meet Mr Egg and Mr Hashbrown...... You all can have a threesome..How does that sound!!!!
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget Mr. Waffle.
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AverageJoe
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or the muffin man... Do you know the muffin man?
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Hack001
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AverageJoe wrote:
Or the muffin man... Do you know the muffin man?


The muffin man?
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbacon wrote:
Just don't take any gigs that go above G#....
Ha! Very good...
Hack, 'do you know the muffin man?' Never mind...
Anyway- the basic answer is that nobody here can tell you what to do
without seeing or hearing you. You're best bet, find a teacher- preferably
a high note specialist. In California? There are plenty!
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blasticore
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lead mouthpieces, legit mouthpieces, all-around horn, commercial horn; I still experience that break. Much to my chagrin, I get more calls for playing lead than anything else, but I've learned to fake my way through certain things. Anything above that G# doesn't slot all that well, so I just play some trills and altered chord tones off as personal style.

I understand wanting to fix it, but there are a lot of people who go through this. For many, it eventually evens itself out, but the rest of them just keep trying to get better in other areas of their playing in order to keep working. For serious lead parts, I recommend people call serious lead players. I don't even mind sitting next to a guy who's getting paid a great deal more than me, just so I don't have to sound like a hack on the part. 'Course, money's good, and I've played much more humiliating gigs.
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there lead parts written that high over double C? I'll check later for the answer, I have an appointment over on Drury Lane . . .
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whatsatrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blasticore wrote:

I understand wanting to fix it, but there are a lot of people who go through this. For many, it eventually evens itself out, but the rest of them just keep trying to get better in other areas of their playing in order to keep working. For serious lead parts, I recommend people call serious lead players. I don't even mind sitting next to a guy who's getting paid a great deal more than me, just so I don't have to sound like a hack on the part. 'Course, money's good, and I've played much more humiliating gigs.


My first piece of advice: Ignore the above.

altamira is right, you'll want to start looking a new mouthpiece. Also, try keeping your embouchure open wider when you start so that the point where it closes up is a higher note. Roger Ingram suggests this method of using a very small rim, but with a wide open embouchure.

Then just continue with lip slurs. You'll get there, but to get started, I'd head to your nearest brass superstore, and try out some new mouthpieces. I've always been a bit partial to the 14a4a for lead playing when I need to play over a G.
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Can only play up to Double G# ---need help with A and ab Reply with quote

Joebaca wrote:
I am able to play up to G# . But, when i try to get to A's and above nthing comes out...My tongue is the main problem.. I feel my tongue blocking all air from coming through...I know it seems like an easy fix. Lower the tongue and let it happen.. It's been a big challenge to fix this problem..Any suggetions!!!


WATERMELON MAN!

Nahhh . . . Joe, you deserve a serious answer to a common problem.

The G# and the A above High C are the toughest notes to get a trumpet to sound. Those two notes I compare to trying to fly a plane with a 2 foot wide wing . . . many horns simply don't want to "fly" on those two notes.

Because of this fact that these notes are hard to get centered and hit, and because at one point or another, all developing players progress to where these notes are at the absolute ceiling of their range . . . the combination is something most players can't get "over."

SOLUTIONS . . .

Have a proficient player who easily plays in the "doubles" range check out your horn AND mouthpiece combination. Since there's so small of a margin for error in how the horn can play these two notes, if there's a valve alignment problem, or a mouthpiece gap issue . . . or a myriad of other slight things mechanically, a specific horn may not be able to "speak" these notes. If the player has no trouble on these two notes you'll know you've got more work to do.

If the horn simply can't speak, the solution is to find a specimen that can "fly" up there in that "thin" atmosphere!

SADLY . . .

Most players purchase their horns before they are proficient in testing a horn on those notes and the octave above it. Thus, the manufacturers know they can sell a mediocre specimen and no one with "know" it. Inconsistencies are a part of horn production reality.

Luckily, few arrangers of commercially sold band literature write parts for the lead trumpet player that approach that two note barrier, so most players need not worry about 'em. Yes, the pro groups and the studio cats DO have parts written for the High A . . . and folks like Wayne Bergeron rule in that area. As a matter of fact, Wayne OWNS the High A.

ON A LESSER ISSUE . . .

Sometimes a specific mouthpiece simply won't interface well with a certain trumpet . . . and the weakness will manifest itself glaringly when you try to play an "A." Sometimes simply a different "piece" will work magic on a specific trumpet.

HOW THE "A" FEELS . . .

You've got to really focus a centered tone on this note, and your aperture CANNOT be too wide. You can get away with too wide an aperture on the easy to "sound" F, F# and G, but suddenly the G# and the A will be completely unforgiving.

Your chops must be buzzing a very precise and centered pitch of a pure A for most horns to pick that note up and amplify it cleanly.

Ironically, things get much easier above the A on a great horn . . . other than the fact that you are continuing to ascend in the pitch you are buzzing . . . for suddenly the "plane" grows longer "wings" again.

Best of luck crossing over to the other side. However, for as long as you play, the Ab and the A will always bite ya in the butt if you aren't well practiced and totally focused in pitch when you play those notes.

T.

T.
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ChuckNorrisOfTrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

practice playing high notes on a Bach 1-1/2 C... then when you perform, use the tiniest mouthpiece possible

hope that helps





I'm just kidding of course... unless it works for you.
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blasticore
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whatsatrumpet wrote:
blasticore wrote:

I understand wanting to fix it, but there are a lot of people who go through this. For many, it eventually evens itself out, but the rest of them just keep trying to get better in other areas of their playing in order to keep working. For serious lead parts, I recommend people call serious lead players. I don't even mind sitting next to a guy who's getting paid a great deal more than me, just so I don't have to sound like a hack on the part. 'Course, money's good, and I've played much more humiliating gigs.


My first piece of advice: Ignore the above.

altamira is right, you'll want to start looking a new mouthpiece. Also, try keeping your embouchure open wider when you start so that the point where it closes up is a higher note. Roger Ingram suggests this method of using a very small rim, but with a wide open embouchure.

Then just continue with lip slurs. You'll get there, but to get started, I'd head to your nearest brass superstore, and try out some new mouthpieces. I've always been a bit partial to the 14a4a for lead playing when I need to play over a G.


Thank you for being so blunt in dismissing my words.

Truth be told, not everyone's a great lead player. A great deal of people can set their chops up for to it, but not without sacrificing at least a small area of their playing, or generally spreading themself thinner than they would've been.

Roger's definitely an exception to that, being one of the most effective lead players around. Have you tried his mouthpiece though? What works for him, though he makes a good point in his methods, might not work for other people.
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jazzrevival
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What worked well for me was doing octave glissandos, playing the top note soft. I would start from 3rd space C to high C, C# to high C#, and so on. The key is hitting the high note softly and learning how they feel. As your chops get used to "the feel" you can put more power behind the note to make them scream.

FWIW - I learned this from Roger Ingram in a lesson. Just make sure you have proper breath support from you diaphragm. Finding a teacher that can help you through this in person is the best solution, however.
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ChuckNorrisOfTrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you can play up to G#'s... may I suggest purchasing Double High C in 37 Weeks, By Roger Spaulding.

I also remember Adam Rapa talking about playing on the "bottom part" of the note.

I would suggest trying to get yourself to play high C like you play middle C. As relaxed as possible. This way when you go higher, going from high C to the G above is like going from C on the staff to G above the staff. Thats the approach I like to take when playing in a lead situation.
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Last edited by ChuckNorrisOfTrumpet on Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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whatsatrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Can only play up to Double G# ---need help with A and ab Reply with quote

tom turner wrote:
The G# and the A above High C are the toughest notes to get a trumpet to sound.


I don't really agree here. For me it was B. I ended finding that an alternate fingering actually did the trick on that one. Also, with A, I tend to play it with just the 3rd valve. I think the "hard note" for everyone is simply the next note higher than they can really play at that moment. For a long while I could play an A with no problem, but B just wouldn't speak. I'd jump right to D.

I prefer a slighly open embouchure playing up there for the same reason you are complaining about. You need room to get tighter. Obviously by the time you get to A it'll be pretty tight.

Check out this site. There are some free videos of Ingram. Very helpful.
http://starsteachmusic.com/sts/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=50

blasticore: I just don't think someone who can't play an A should be giving advice on how to play one.
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ChuckNorrisOfTrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Chase played A's with all 3 valves down

I remember whatsatrumpet doing that jump right to D thing... it was quite impressive to see in person
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