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The Reinhardt Routines—a total embouchure development plan


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PivotBone
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich, I saw that comment that Doug wrote and I've been thinking about it. My opinion, fwiw, is that MANY players start their days with a long tone sequence of some sort. Many of these long tone sequences are confined to a relatively limited range of the instrument and don't really force the player to play all over the horn while doing long tones. In all honesty, I don't know why they even bother...Now while the Pivot Stabilizer obviously (based on the title alone!) has more of a goal than simply playing long tones, WHAT A GREAT LONG TONE SEQUENCE IT IS!! It gets you playing ALL OVER the horn on one embouchure while using dynamics that are in line with Doc's ideas on apperture control.

Now, I can see why Doug said it may may be harmful if not done correctly. However, we might want to consider that many players who come into this book have never even thought about pivoting yet might still get some real development out of a sequence like this that really forces them to play all areas of the horn on one embouchure. Would it be better if they did the Stabilizer with the correct pivot? Absolutely!! But, I think players can still get some benifit from it.

Maybe it would be helpful to include information about what the pivot is (maybe use a different term like Doug uses) and how one might apply it if he/she were so inclined (I guess something like I wrote above). Maybe a little gentle, no-nonsense Reinhardt guidance for those who choose to know more would be beneficial. Those who just want to play through the book can go right ahead and skip over that part and still get great results!!! Just an idea...

Rich
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airdyn
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Pivot Stabilizer Reply with quote

My feelings about having the Pivot Stabilizer "up front" is to have it there so when one takes the book to a Reinhardt Teacher, the "arrows" will be drawn and the pivot directions ( with personal deviations) will be established (Classification I or II).
Until one goes to such a teacher, any warm up will do, say the Spider Web. For a long period I would just go to the Day and use what it was for the warm up and procede. If one "plays" the Stabilizer "wrong" i.e. using the wrong pivot direction to ascend or descend, the player will instantly know that if the intervals don't happen in a smooth, easy manner, (after two or three intervals, as they widen) the player should stop and be content with the smaller intervals until he/she is instructed to proceed using the correct Pivot Classification.
Take the book to a Reinhardt Teacher! Otherwise, warm-up with anything you like before each day or just start the day as written. Flexibility in thinking is just as important as flexibility in playing.
Dave S.
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PhxHorn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is interesting to read, as I've been using warmup 57 for a couple years now with great results, and have just started my second pass through the new book. The emb. stabilizer warmup was tedious to play, but I played most of it every time and always felt better by the time I finished.

As best I can tell, I'm a IIIB, though I've not been typed by an expert. I'm downstream, no question about that part. I play with about 85% upper lip in the mouthpiece, 15% bottom lip, and Kenny Smukel at first told me by phone that he suspected IIIA, but I tend to pull down to ascend and push up to descend, which apparently makes me IIIB. It sounds like I use more upper lip than is usual for that type, though.

At any rate, what I'm getting at is this: I've always played with a dry upper lip and wet bottom lip. No problems with sores, etc, but my bottom lip tends to want to slip out while I'm playing. In the past, I tended to have more pressure on the upper lip, but over the last few months on Kenny's advice, and especially since I've gotten the new book, I'm learning to play with most of the pressure on the bottom.

Not only that, but I'm learning to deal with playing with more moisture on my upper lip. I have a tendency to want to stretch my upper lip up and outward after I put the mouthpiece on. I know that's a bad habit and so I've worked to minimize it, but the habit is such a pain to deal with during all the removing and replacing of the mouthpiece in the book's "days", that it's causing me to lean towards a wetter embouchure. I'm seeing no ill effects on my playing. It's a weird feeling, like my chops are going to slip out, but I'm seeing all kinds of improvement overall. My chops feel more focused through the whole range of the horn, and endurance and accuracy are vastly improved. Played two 4-hour gigs this weekend and felt stronger than I have in years, no joke.
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Doug Elliott
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhxHorn wrote:
...As best I can tell, I'm a IIIB, though I've not been typed by an expert. I'm downstream, no question about that part. I play with about 85% upper lip in the mouthpiece, 15% bottom lip, and Kenny Smukel at first told me by phone that he suspected IIIA, but I tend to pull down to ascend and push up to descend, which apparently makes me IIIB...

I'm glad things are improving for you, but... don't assume you are either type until you know for sure. Kenny knows his stuff; get him to type you. It's very common for a IIIA to play incorrectly like a IIIB, and therefore be confusing. Even Doc himself made that mistake at least a couple of times that I know of.
Say hi to Kenny for me.
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PhxHorn
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a gig in Tucson next week, and so I've made arrangements to meet with Kenny that day.
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BeboppinFool
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhxHorn wrote:
Not only that, but I'm learning to deal with playing with more moisture on my upper lip. I have a tendency to want to stretch my upper lip up and outward after I put the mouthpiece on. I know that's a bad habit and so I've worked to minimize it, but the habit is such a pain to deal with during all the removing and replacing of the mouthpiece in the book's "days", that it's causing me to lean towards a wetter embouchure. I'm seeing no ill effects on my playing. It's a weird feeling, like my chops are going to slip out, but I'm seeing all kinds of improvement overall. My chops feel more focused through the whole range of the horn, and endurance and accuracy are vastly improved. Played two 4-hour gigs this weekend and felt stronger than I have in years, no joke.

When I first went from a dry embouchure to a wet embouchure (coincidentally, right after my first lesson with Reinhardt), I couldn't really tell what I was doing . . . but it was working! That disoriented feeling lasted for the better part of a year, and my chops improved steadily all during that time.

I had a double the other day, salsa gig (trumpet) in the afternoon and a valve bone gig in the evening. I had to play a lot of extended solos on the salsa gig and was completely beat when I left there, but two hours later I felt like a million bucks at the evening gig. That definitely would never have even been a remote possibility before my adherence to Reinhardt's teaching (for a multitude of reasons).

It just keeps getting better!
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mulligan stew
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: the Pivot Stabilizer.

Doug told me that if you're pivoting correctly, your octaves will "open up"--in other words, they will become more in tune by lowering the bottom pitch and raising the upper one.

Perhaps, then, advice to players who haven't been typed should be along the lines of "Make sure the octaves are perfectly in tune and ensure that the lower notes aren't sharp and the upper notes aren't flat." This might have the back-door effect of making players pivot correctly, even if they don't know their pivot.

I love this drill, and find that if I skip it, my playing later in the day is never as good. If I'm very pressed for time or have a gig later I will do a shorter version of it or might skip the high E's and G's.
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Doug Elliott
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mulligan stew wrote:
Doug told me that if you're pivoting correctly, your octaves will ... become more in tune by lowering the bottom pitch and raising the upper one.

Perhaps, then, advice to players who haven't been typed should be along the lines of "Make sure the octaves are perfectly in tune and ensure that the lower notes aren't sharp and the upper notes aren't flat." This might have the back-door effect of making players pivot correctly, even if they don't know their pivot.


True, but with "a little knowlege" some might lower the bottom pitch by collapsing and raise the top by pinching.
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mulligan stew
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug Elliott wrote:
mulligan stew wrote:
Doug told me that if you're pivoting correctly, your octaves will ... become more in tune by lowering the bottom pitch and raising the upper one.

Perhaps, then, advice to players who haven't been typed should be along the lines of "Make sure the octaves are perfectly in tune and ensure that the lower notes aren't sharp and the upper notes aren't flat." This might have the back-door effect of making players pivot correctly, even if they don't know their pivot.


True, but with "a little knowlege" some might lower the bottom pitch by collapsing and raise the top by pinching.


Excellent point--OK, scratch what I wrote above!
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JoshMizruchi
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally ordered the book a few days ago. I've only been playing 11 years, but I feel like I'm on the road to a big time discovery about playing efficiently. It is my hope that these routines will facilitate my development so that I can improve. I've found that on my best days, my sound, articulation, range and endurance are all good, and that at the best, my chops feel invincible! But I have trouble maintaining this. I really hope this book will help me get it, for good!
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PivotBone
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mulligan stew wrote:
Re: the Pivot Stabilizer.

Doug told me that if you're pivoting correctly, your octaves will "open up"--in other words, they will become more in tune by lowering the bottom pitch and raising the upper one.


Uh oh, looks like Reinhardt is going to put Dave Monette out of business
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mulligan stew
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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PhxHorn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've gotten a couple of emails asking about Kenny Smukel, and I ended up cancelling my lesson due to a change in my gig schedule. I'm not sure when I'll get down to Tucson again. Though I do continue to play out of the new book....
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jwilson46
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've gotten a couple of emails asking about Kenny Smukel, and I ended up cancelling my lesson due to a change in my gig schedule. I'm not sure when I'll get down to Tucson again. Though I do continue to play out of the new book....



I heard Ken Smukal back in his Airmen of Note days. He was one of the most outstanding trumpeters I've ever heard. He had double Cs and Ds that could part your hair. He also is a great jazz player. A former leader of the Note told me that Ken was so solid on his interpretation and timing that the band had no choice but to follow him. Did I also mention that he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet... Do yourself a favor and reschedule that lesson.

John
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich, is "Reinhardt Routines" substantially different from the "Pivot System - Graduated Studies" book available on Dave Sheetz' Website?

Thanks, Jim
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BeboppinFool
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, yes, way different. The Graduated Studies was originally Reinhardt's beginner's book which took you from beginner to intermediate, with a couple other things in there that might be good for even an advanced player, although it's probably not a book an advanced player would get much out of.

The Mechanisms book has a lot of great stuff in it, and with a good teacher or some thoughtful planning of your own, you can develop your own very thorough practice regimen, but it is not the balanced set of workouts that you'll find in The Reinhardt Routines.

The Reinhardt Routinesis a set of 9 Days that you just keep rotating through. There are some directions, but this book is at the other end of the spectrum from the Encyclopedia which is all text and very few actual drills (none notated with staves and notes).

It also comes with Supplemental Routines to permit you to bear down on your tonguing, your finger and tongue technique, along with several pages you can opt to play as an alternative to the 9 Days should you want a change but still desire the benefits of doing some Reinhardt material.

I have been consistently rotating through this book for a full two months, now, and have been getting great results. My endurance has never been better, and I'm getting to the point where I had gotten on trombone a few years back where the farther along in my playing day I get, the better I sound and feel.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Rich. I'm sold!
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2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
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JoeCool
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just received my copy of this today. I'm looking forward to working out of it. I've been sifting through the Reinhardt Forum in the meantime. I tend to approach things in an organic fashion and find all the embouchure typing rather over whelming. Is it that important to know your type? I would rather not think about it, go to work and improve. You know....Just Do It.

It looks like a solid program.
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BeboppinFool
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoeCool wrote:
I just received my copy of this today. I'm looking forward to working out of it. I've been sifting through the Reinhardt Forum in the meantime. I tend to approach things in an organic fashion and find all the embouchure typing rather over whelming. Is it that important to know your type? I would rather not think about it, go to work and improve. You know....Just Do It.

It looks like a solid program.

The purpose of this book is to get some Reinhardt routines that require little or no explanation to "the masses" who never got a chance to study with Reinhardt. It's also intended to be helpful to all embouchure types and for the purposes of this book, knowing what type you are is optional.

So, you're right . . . just do it.
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bgibson
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many times have some of us heard Doc say:
"DO NOT AD-LIB ON MY DRILLS".
If you use the "Stabilizer", the student needs to be monitored to make sure they are playing it correctly.
Most common errors that I have seen are tempo and attacks.
WEG
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