Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 997 Location: Michigan, USA
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: 36A vs 38A
I used to own a Connstelation and liked it, but, that was a wholly different sounding horn than my latest 'acquisition'. That is, if my ancient memory is telling me the truth.
I had a really unique opportunity in 2002 to compare the Wild Thing "American" cornet (a classic "long bell" type) with the Wild Thing Short cornet (a shepherd's crook type).
Flip Oakes explained to me that BOTH horns used the same valve assembly. Both horns also had their bells made on the same mandrel, though (of course) bent differently. Both had the same bore. Both had the same valve slide lengths (of course). Naturally, the way the tubing was "wrapped" was different though.
HOWEVER . . . both horns had a different blow and SOUNDED different too. One brighter and more projecting . . . the other sweet, mellow and warmer.
The differences were quite apparent to both listener AND player.
Yup . . . there are differences. The way horns are wrapped and shaped does affect their sound.
Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 801 Location: Elkins Park, PA
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject:
Really? That is so interesting about Flip's Cornets! It does answer the original question while other posters did post good points about other manufactures. I'm really curious about the two Yamaha student model Cornets, long and short. The long has a 5 1/8" bell and a larger throat compared to a Trumpet. The Short has the standard 4 3/4" bell.
I am still borrowing that Student Holton long cornet, which Yamaha makes for them, and it sounds great. It has the same specs as the long student Yamaha. I wonder how their sounds would compare with the bell difference. _________________ Bach Strad (lacq.) 37
Yamaha C Trumpet (silver) YTR6445HS
Couesnon Monopole Flugelhorn circa 1970
7 rims (Curry)
www.myspace.com/whistlingbarofsoap
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 5364 Location: Chincoteague, Virginia
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:55 am Post subject:
My "take" on all this comes down to the player, the mouthpiece and the "sound concept".
I purposely try to establish my own sound (never emulating others). I play other instruments (beside horns), and endeavor to do the same on them. I've been told (by my peers) my sound on guitar is "distinctive", which is satisfying to me, as there are millions-upon-millions of guitar players "out there".
I have several Cornets, as being discussed here (including one I swapped to OLDLOU). Among those are several Conn 28A's, a New York Strad, a couple vintage Blessing Super-Artists, a 1930's King SilverTone SC, several vintage Martin Committees and Imperials (Handcrafts and later). The oldest is an early 20th Century J.W. Pepper ( the more desired "Maker" -- not "Import") SC.
On the early J.W. Pepper, for example ... I approach the instrument with a specific idea as to the "sound concept" I strive for. Almost always, a vintage "cookie-cutter" (deep V-cup) mouthpiece is appropriate. Likewise, the 1930's King SilverTone SC.
This is pretty straight-forward stuff ... sorta the "no-brainer"-department.
The Conn 28A, simply the most versatile Bb horn on the planet (aside from my odd "Flumpetly-Thing"), effectively spans just about all tonal-spectrums of the Bb horns. One must be very adventuresome and experiment with the vast array of Cornet mouthpieces (and also, French Horn mpc's, which can be utilized with a little ingenuity). The results are greatly rewarding. The veritable "Swiss Army Knife" of Bb horns.
I suppose if there was a digital audio "sound-print" of the various Cornets, the true Shepherd's Crook horn would have a different "reading" than a long-Cornet with the same mouthpiece. The sound-spread / projection parameters would differ, as well.
I think (?) the Shepherd's Crook Cornets do more to inspire a different tonal "sound-concept", in their own right.
** Someday, I gotta try plugging a "cookie-cutter" mpc into a Conch-shell . Watch-out, Gheorghe Zamfir, Damian Draghici !!!
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 997 Location: Michigan, USA
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: Smoke
Are you implying that you as his owner have a propensity for terrifying the 'dogs' in your neighborhood?
Hey I just 'acquired' one of the finest playing cornets I have yet found. This one is a 'KEEPER" . A Conn Concert Grand 36A. Even Christine has never seen one. Have you?
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 5364 Location: Chincoteague, Virginia
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Smoke
oldlou wrote:
Are you implying that you as his owner have a propensity for terrifying the 'dogs' in your neighborhood?
Hey I just 'acquired' one of the finest playing cornets I have yet found. This one is a 'KEEPER" . A Conn Concert Grand 36A. Even Christine has never seen one. Have you?
OLDLOU>>
I avoid "dogs" (of all kinds).
I think (?) I recall a 36A Concert Grand a few years ago, on eBay. Didn't persue it, though.
Have you ever had a chance to compare the 36A to a 38A?
I owned both of them and I can say that the 38A is a cornet, the 36A is a trumpet with a cornet receiver. The sound is a LITTLE smoother than the 38B (the trumpet) but if you push hard there's no real difference with the 38A... The 36A is more versatile, you can have 3 instruments in one just by changing the mouthpiece: a "british cornet" (let's say it: a REAL CORNET...), an "american cornet" (let's say is again: a trumpet a little easier to play...) and a trumpet. Change the cup depth (and SHAPE!!!) and you don't need to buy 3 different instruments...
Why I sold them? The best "british" sound I could get out of a Conn 36A is not as good as the one I can get out of a Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt (or the Taylor Orpheus I'm planning to buy...). The trumpetish sound of the 36A (or the 38A) doesn't even get close to the one I can get from my Taylor Chicago Custom (or X-Lite).
Not that I die if I don't have that sound but, hey... we are trumpet players!!!
_________________ AR Resonance Trumpets and Mouthpieces
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2649 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:10 pm Post subject:
Resurrection of a very old thread because it had comments from people I don't ever read here these days. Also, because there is information that comes up these days occasionally and I think it makes for a great read.
I was playing around today using a Curry TF mouthpiece with a nice trumpet I just acquired. Doesn't matter what kind. I was trying to mellow out the sound for soft ballad play. Not quite a flugelhorn sound, but just a soulful and mellow embrace to the tunes.
Then I pulled out the shepherd's crook cornet with a Wick no letter mouthpiece. The ability to push for more sound and not lose the mellow wonderfulness was fantastic. I think the shepherd's crook needs more attention. What do you think? _________________ Richard
Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 449 Location: Mountains of North Carolina
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:32 am Post subject:
As you can se in my signature I play trumpet, long American Cornet and the British shepherds Crook cornet.
I think there is more then just fullness, brighter to darker sound to this.
To me my Sovereign cornet (shepherd's crook) has a certain SWEETNESS to it that I can not achieve with my Conn 80A, no matter what mouthpiece I use or what sound concept I follow. .
Talking about sound concept. For me, my sound concept for my shepherd's crook cornet is to sound like David Daws.
No way that I can ever sound like that on my Conn 80 A. On my Sovereign cornet I come close. _________________ B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
F. Besson Brevette Kanstul made
B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
Buescher 400 - 225 (WWII)
Benge 90C
Eastman 540 D/Eb
ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2649 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:22 am Post subject:
Here's a quote from the "Wayback Machine."
Quote:
I'm with thedevilsbad on this. Jazz isn't about the horn as much as it is about the player.
I have a newly acquired old B&H Sovereign. I know it is a vintage horn and not within the constraints of the OP's question but, with a Wick 4 it is a great sounding instrument for small club jazz.
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 449 Location: Mountains of North Carolina
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:32 am Post subject:
I also find a cornet more forgiving to play then the trumpet _________________ B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
F. Besson Brevette Kanstul made
B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
Buescher 400 - 225 (WWII)
Benge 90C
Eastman 540 D/Eb
ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing
Bobby Hackett played many many different cornets (and some trumpets) in his long career. Always instantly recognizable.
Here is an interesting read from another great cornetist:
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. Watch-out, Gheorghe Zamfir, Damian Draghici !!! 
