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Shepherd's crook cornet: Tone advantage or hype?


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veery715
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
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Location: Ithaca NY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Here's a quote from the "Wayback Machine."

Quote:
I'm with thedevilsbad on this. Jazz isn't about the horn as much as it is about the player.

I have a newly acquired old B&H Sovereign. I know it is a vintage horn and not within the constraints of the OP's question but, with a Wick 4 it is a great sounding instrument for small club jazz.

veery


It's from this discussion:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90041&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Since you resurrected a quote from me, which I frankly had completely forgotten, I will say that I still play cornet a lot, and mostly a Wild Thing Short Cornet. I also play a Buescher custom, a Holton from the late 20s, both of which are long cornets, a York Professional which is shepherds crook. They all have their good and bad aspects. Mostly I play the WT, as it's the mellowest.

Still C trumpet in church, but I get mellow even there. I guess it's me.

We lost oldlou. Not sure if Robert Rowe is still with us.
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Flip Oakes
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Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 532
Location: Oceanside, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom turner wrote:
I had a really unique opportunity in 2002 to compare the Wild Thing "American" cornet (a classic "long bell" type) with the Wild Thing Short cornet (a shepherd's crook type).

Flip Oakes explained to me that BOTH horns used the same valve assembly. Both horns also had their bells made on the same mandrel, though (of course) bent differently. Both had the same bore. Both had the same valve slide lengths (of course). Naturally, the way the tubing was "wrapped" was different though.

HOWEVER . . . both horns had a different blow and SOUNDED different too. One brighter and more projecting . . . the other sweet, mellow and warmer.

The differences were quite apparent to both listener AND player.

Yup . . . there are differences. The way horns are wrapped and shaped does affect their sound.

T.


The Wild Thing American Cornet has a longer bell, and shorter leadpipe. The Short Shepherd's Crook model has a longer leadpipe and a shorter bell. This would mean as the Wild Thing Cornet is so conical, that the bell is cut shorter on the Shepherd's cornet and the shorter the bell the more open the bell is at the 1st. valve entry. This is why the Wild Thing Short Shepherd's crook cornet is somewhat more open, warmer, darker, and bolder sounding. Though the American model is a true cornet as well. The American model has a more of a trumpet blow and feel to it then the shorter Shepherd's crook model. And the new Copper bells are even warmer then the brass bells on both models!

Thanks Tom !

Flip Oakes
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Brodydog
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Joined: 28 Apr 2019
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it depends on the music or the ensemble I am playing in. When I play in a British Brass Band it demands a shepherds crook cornet. I use a Besson Prestige cornet. In an orchestra I would use a Getzen or something with more projection than the Besson. Usually without the shepherds crook.
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reddogbuster
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Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: York Cornets Reply with quote

I have a York cornet, c. 1911, with no Professional or Perfec-tone stamp on the bell...just J.W. York, Grand Rapids etc...and it has two slides (figure it's Bflat and A) and on the first and third tuning slide, there is a small "C" stamped. What does this mean? Any thoughts? What were the normal bores for these horns? Thanks and I'll wait for answer.
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