Any Olds P-10 or P-12 players?

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

I've loved the Olds horn line for a long time but I never hear about the P-10 or P-12 models of the 1970s. Anybody had any experiences with these horns? Are they equal to the Super, or other well known Olds models?

Larry

Happy Canuck · Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject:

Hi Larry, I had a P-12 at one time. Main difference between a P-10 and a P-12 is the Ultrasonic bell.

The P-10 Custom started out as a Zig Kanstul/R Dale Olson creation, this is what Dale sent me:
The Custom was a series of trumpets designed by Zig Kanstul and me. The numbers on the bell refer to combinations of bells and leadpipes used on the particular horn, and indicating various technical aspects of the leadpipe (i.e., small end dimensions, etc.).

The early Custom concept was fascinating, but, as I have later learned, excessively complex for most players. The problem has to do with perceptual difficulties encountered when one is provided an excess number of choices. A choice between "chocolate" and "vanilla" ice cream is rather straightforward, whereas the choice between 25 different flavors becomes difficult. The custom trumpets had (to my recall at this time) five different leadpipes and three different bells. This produced 15 different variations of very similar trumpets. The subtle differences were often below the perceptual threshold of most players and, therefore, presented an excess number of choices. Many, many years later, I studied these issues as they relate to trumpet performance. Had I been apprised of these matters during the design of the Custom, I would have certainly restricted the number of permutations available.

The Custom eventually attained the status of a single model long after Zig and I both left the Olds Company. The resultant leadpipe and bell were quite probably the ones which Olds personnel felt were the most popular.

You can read more about the 'Custom' here http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds66/customkit.htm
Mine had some of the mid-70's valve problems, see this article http://rouses.net/trumpet/WorkingAtOlds62-72.html and the silver plating was poor and started to wear very soon. A lot of them also had nylon valve guides vs metal.

The horn played well though, it was a lightweight horn and had good response. Not really the best horn Olds every produced and a far cry from my Recording. Mind you the Custom C is/was a great C trumpet!
_________________
Bill

Olds trumpets/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds Flugelhorn/GR leadpipe/GR Butcher 65.6FL

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Bill,

Thanks for the great info.

Larry

TheLawTalkingGuy · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject:

My first (and only!) brand new horn was my 1977 Olds P-12 Custom in silver. I played it exclusively for almost 25 years, but the valves stick now and need replating (the projected cost of which set me off on a horn safari lasting several years)!

My current main horn is a 1938 Olds Super, and I would say they do have some similarities. Both are lightweight horns, both are quite responsive and open, and both have what I (inarticulately) describe as a "sweet" tone, which nonetheless can really open up if pushed.

The Custom now waits patiently in its case for the valve job. Every month or so I take it out and marvel at how much I like the feel of it. I even played it at a concert this summer, including the solo for Trumpeter's Lullabye. It sounded great, but the valves, even heavily oilked, got sluggish during the solo and back in the case it's been since.

I'm not a pro, so I don't know if my affection and comfort level with the Custom is sentimental, objective, or merely a result of the fact that, after 20+ years, I know where everything is on the that horn and it just "feels" right.

FWIW, I also have a NY Strad that doesn't get as much playing time as the Super, so my taste may be a bit screwy!
_________________
John Underhill

The purpose of all music is "the glory of God and the re-creation of the human spirit." (J.S. Bach)

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Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

More good info, John. Thanks. Unfortunately, or fortunately (it may be hard to know), the P-12 I was eyeing isn't available any more.

Still, the insights into these horns will be helpful for future reference. I think, however, I'm going to keep an ear to the ground for a nice Super.

Larry

mtroyal57 · Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:12 am Post subject: P-12 CHR

I bought a Ultra Sonic P-12 CHR in 1978 with the tuneable bell in college. I was lead in the University Jazz Ensemble as well a the 129th Army National Guard Band. I lucked into a Bach 37 bell and had it made into a tuneable bell as an alternate for concert and general ensemble work. I really loved the feel and response of the horn but it was stolen from me in Indianapolis back in 1983. I recently found a practically unused CHR on eBay and am now in the process of finding a second bell for non-lead playing.

Wondra · Heavyweight Member Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 537

Bobby Shew played a P12L (large bore) exclusively starting in the early 70's up until the time he moved to Yamaha. He was an Olds endorsing artist during this time period. He used the P12L to play lead with the big bands of Toshiko Akiyoshi, Louie Bellson, Terry Gibbs, Bill Holman, and Bob Florence. He also used it with all of the combos he was working with at the time.
_________________
Dave Wondra

Don't make me get the flying monkeys...

TheLawTalkingGuy · Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:52 am Post subject:

A few years after I posted in 2007, I sent my P-12 Custom back to (the late) Zig Kanstul for a valve job and re-plating at the (also late) Kanstul factory. It came back as good as new, but by then I had acquired an Olds Super Recording and had it overhauled by Charlie Melk, and that's been my main horn for almost 10 years. Still, I've taken the Custom out for jazz band a few times, and it can really light it up! A tad bright for concert or quintet work, but a great horn, IMHO.
_________________
John Underhill

The purpose of all music is "the glory of God and the re-creation of the human spirit." (J.S. Bach)

(Flag Graphics Courtesy of 3DFlags.com)

A.N.A.Mendez · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:16 am Post subject:

What era is your SR ?
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860

☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚

TheLawTalkingGuy · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:40 am Post subject:

A.N.A.Mendez · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:59 am Post subject:

OK, they are so wonderful. I wonder if other players you run into have tried your horn, perhaps never knew about the model ? Reaction ?
Mine is the very early version with "recording" only on the fat tonering
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860

☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚

TheLawTalkingGuy · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:57 am Post subject:

Most that try it, love it. One of my fellow band members even bought one after she tried mine. Great horns. Not as bright as a Custom or Super.
_________________
John Underhill

The purpose of all music is "the glory of God and the re-creation of the human spirit." (J.S. Bach)

(Flag Graphics Courtesy of 3DFlags.com)