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ConnCoprion Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 1620
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: TH losing credibility? |
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I like you all, LOVE TH! The information is limitless................but I'm sick of TH's marketplace being flooded with scammers.....like Silver Bachs going for 500 bucks by some guy named "hulkiaoka"
Now I haven't been scammed, but as some else wrote, that we here on TH would hate to see some kid scammed out of their hard earned money.
I'm sorry for the rant (my 1st).............maybe it's late..........but the more I thought about real people here on TH getting scammed the more frustrated I got.....
It's getting ridiculous...isn't there anything that we can do? Tell me, and I'll do it.
As I see it, the more scams that are listed...just erodes TH's Marketplace down the tubes...
once again sorry for the rant..........I love TH too much to simply watch it train-wreck itself _________________ Philippians 1:6 |
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Blancolate Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 649 Location: new jersey
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps you should have a minimum amount of posts before you are allowed to sell. I feel much more comfortable when you see someone selling who is a poster as well.
How about introducing some escrow service to TH members?
How about some official way of flagging a suspicious ad? Heck, I have seen ads that are frauds stay up for some time. |
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mathgeek Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 468 Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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There have been multiple requests over the last couple of years that something be done to improve the marketplace and help limit the scammers. I know they will never be eliminated, but they could be reduced drastically. . . if someone who can do something will actually act!
Look, moderators, I know that there have been multiple ideas/suggestions posted to various forums. A simple search of Marketplace scams would easily turn up dozens if not hundreds of posts.
The only response we seem to get is "caveat emptor". For you administrator/moderator types out there that means "buyer beware". How many more people do you need to see concerned before something is attempted to fix this problem?
Clean up the scammers by limiting those who can post to the marketplace with a certain number of posts to their credit. It is a statistic that is already tracked by the system, so it shouldn't be hard to use.
Clean up the old advertisements (and I am talking months in some instances) by only allowing posts to the market place for 2 weeks or 30 days or something.
Any other ideas out there. . . besides "caveat emptor"?
Laars. _________________ Bach 43
Marcinkiewicz CG Personal (22 throat) |
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jerrydaz Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 221 Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: |
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It looks as though the Scammers have hit the marketplace again today.
New entries with no name, no phone number, no Email address, no contact information and no posts.
When are the TH administrators going to tighten things up around here??
This is a great forum with wonderful people who thouroughly love trumpets, music and other musicians.
But, the Admins MUST pay closer attention to those registering with bogus names, only to "Scam" all of us out of our hard earned dollars.
The reputation of TH will be tarnished if the Admins don't do something to protect the integrity of this site and the real contributors here. _________________ "All the Best"
Jerry Donato
Conn Constellation 38B
J. Marcinkiewicz E3.1 CH
Karl Hammond Design 4L
"For heights and depths no words can reach, music is the soul's own speech". |
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pitchlevel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2003 Posts: 537 Location: Guanajuato, Mexico
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: |
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I hate to say it, but on another forum that I frequent the solution was swift and bold:
They charge you to place ads.
And it worked. No more scams, no more spam, lots more satisfied buyers and sellers. |
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Mr. Stomvi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 1062
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Just close the Marketplace down. It needs to go away. If people want to sell stuff - just list it on eBay. Simple as that.
Seth Moore _________________ "He has Van Gogh's ear for music."
Billy Wilder |
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jerrydaz Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 221 Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: I'm sorry for the rant (my 1st).............maybe it's late. |
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Maybe if more of the real and true TH'ers were to do some serious ranting, then and only then will these issues be resolved and the fine people who frequent and contribute here be protected.
Don't apologize for trying to protect decent people.
Remember, "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch".
"Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote." _________________ "All the Best"
Jerry Donato
Conn Constellation 38B
J. Marcinkiewicz E3.1 CH
Karl Hammond Design 4L
"For heights and depths no words can reach, music is the soul's own speech". |
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Oncewasaplayer Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 973
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: |
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The suggestion of a minimum amount of posting before a person could sell an item seems reasonable. That way a interested buyer can review the seller's connection to the horn by quickly peeking at his or her posts. _________________ Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet |
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jpetrocelli Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 3147 Location: Northern VA
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: |
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If you are going to rant on the sellers, you must also rant on the buyers.
I don't sell things very often t all, but recently I had an experience where the person got my item, and then over a month later I got an email saying the item didn't fit properly and he wanted to return it to me.
I may have worked with him, but before talking about it, he immediately put a claim in on PayPal. So you know what....I think he played with it for a month, didn't like it, and wanted his money back. But this is a friendly forum. I am not a retail store and offer no guarantees on whether or not you'd like it or not. A month is too long. And then instead of talking, he puts a formal claim in. PayPal sided with me....but come on. Grow up.
I buy mouthpieces ALL THE TIME (Just ask my wife), don't like them, and resell them. It's the circle of trumpet obsession. _________________ Joe Petrocelli |
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jerrydaz Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 221 Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Joe, you are correct.
My point is if someone is buying or selling on TH - they should be scrutinized as to their credibility.
Anyone is alowed to register on this forum with just a bogus screen name and nothing else.
FWIW, you are one of the great posters on this forum.
I always read your posts wether I am interested in the topic or not, or wether I agree with you or not. _________________ "All the Best"
Jerry Donato
Conn Constellation 38B
J. Marcinkiewicz E3.1 CH
Karl Hammond Design 4L
"For heights and depths no words can reach, music is the soul's own speech". |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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TH has already lost a tremendous amount of credibility because of this failure to act sooner. I have little doubt that dozens, if not hundreds, of potential buyers have decided to cease frequenting the marketplace. To put it quite simply, the marketplace is now unquestionably ruled by the scammers, and no one with the power to do something seems to be willing to make the overhaul that is neccessary to change the situation. The scammers are also faster and smarter than us: if you notice, the scam ads have improved considerably since last week. They are learning better grammar quickly, and maybe they'll soon have phone numbers set up to take deception to the next level. It is no longer a friendly environment, it's more like a minefield. Using the minefield analogy, we can 1) hope the authorities will do something, 2) avoid it completely, or 3) tread across it carefully, remembering where the mines are and desperately hoping we won't get blown up by new ones that we haven't yet discovered. It's a losing game in every scenario until the powers that be choose to step in. |
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trumpaholic Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1501 Location: Lindsay Ontario Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: |
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As I have been buying and selling on the TH for some time now, it would be great if there were a feedback system for TH folks like eBay has. A lot of folks on here recognize my eBay trumpaholic moniker and have trust in me from my 100% feedback rating there. The bottom line is, always be sure of who your dealing with, get a phone number and talk to them, and if they will not do that, forget it. |
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Shillelagh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 709 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Another point I might add on the BUYER end of everything:
If you're going to buy something off of here that you've never owned before.... TRY IT LOCALLY!!! Borrow it from a friend, take a 2 hour drive to the nearest major city. Message someone on here that has the equipment you might be interested and arrange a meet somewhere!! If you can't find a way in the near future to try out the "thing" you want, then don't buy it unless you're 100% sure you can sell it again! There's alot of really stupid trumpeters around my area that buy really "neat" looking stuff off of Ebay, but can't use it! So they plug around the area (which is musically pretty dead in terms of brass instruments) trying to sell their wares and it's difficult to sell at the price they got it for originally. Money RIGHT down the drain.
In tandem with Joe's post, that's just dumb (the buyer I mean). The TH marketplace is a great resource, and when buying something as personal as a mouthpiece or horn, per say, we as buyers NEED to try it out and like it first. There's no "money back guarantee" with private sales and people really need to realize that while buying on here, and I'm glad PayPal didn't stick it to you Joe. _________________ I dodge the warm fuzzies, are they contagious?
Bach Artisan Bb
Wedge 3C |
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GenoValet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 1244
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Stomvi wrote: | Just close the Marketplace down. It needs to go away. If people want to sell stuff - just list it on eBay. Simple as that.
Seth Moore |
I believe that may be known as "jumping from the frying pan into the fire." The TH marketplace is a good thing for those of us who are legit members here. So another vote for solid registry & history of posts (like no less than 100 spread over say 6 months, which should at least deter scammers from wasting their valuable free time before they end up in deep yogurt, jail, purgatory, hell, etc., take your pick...) as 2 minimal preconditions to marketplace access. Don't let any kind of "terrorism" win... |
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Blancolate Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 649 Location: new jersey
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, the guy who was just accused of scamming just gave us the answer.
Unless you have a certain amount of posts, you have to produce a YouTube video for authenticity.....yep, that will set things straight. |
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Riojazz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 1008 Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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I will never use eBay. Too many scams, deceptions, and money lost.
I might consider TH to sell some extra mouthpieces, because I trust the members of the small community here and feel I know something about each of them through their posts. I think I'll wait, though, until this problem of scammers gets taken care of, before I attempt my first listing. _________________ Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D. |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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mathgeek wrote: | There have been multiple requests over the last couple of years that something be done to improve the marketplace and help limit the scammers. I know they will never be eliminated, but they could be reduced drastically. . . if someone who can do something will actually act!
Look, moderators, I know that there have been multiple ideas/suggestions posted to various forums. A simple search of Marketplace scams would easily turn up dozens if not hundreds of posts.
The only response we seem to get is "caveat emptor". For you administrator/moderator types out there that means "buyer beware". How many more people do you need to see concerned before something is attempted to fix this problem?
Clean up the scammers by limiting those who can post to the marketplace with a certain number of posts to their credit. It is a statistic that is already tracked by the system, so it shouldn't be hard to use.
Clean up the old advertisements (and I am talking months in some instances) by only allowing posts to the market place for 2 weeks or 30 days or something.
Any other ideas out there. . . besides "caveat emptor"?
Laars. |
The Forum Moderators have NOTHING to do with the Marketplace! This has been said numerous times before but perhaps bears repeating. Other than bringing issues up with Todd (sysadmin, user "trumpetherald"), which you can also do via PM, there is not anything we can do over there. Nor do we generally wish to -- we are very busy, especially this time of year, and this place is often fairly time-consuming as it is (mostly behind the scenes). Adding the Marketplace to our duties is more than most of us have time for, especially considering the amount of effort it could potentially require.
As a matter of fact, Todd has spent quite a bit of time dealing with Marketplace issues on a fairly routine basis. My guess is he's swamped and hasn't had time to deal with it yet. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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GenoValet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 1244
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Blancolate wrote: | Hey, the guy who was just accused of scamming just gave us the answer.
Unless you have a certain amount of posts, you have to produce a YouTube video for authenticity.....yep, that will set things straight. |
Huh? |
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Blancolate Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 649 Location: new jersey
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: |
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To Genovalet:
There was a guy selling a horn on Ebay and one of our posters accused the ad as being a fraud. The Ebay seller found out about the accusation and went on to produce a Youtube video of himself playing the horn and also showing a new Monette he had just purchased as the reason he was selling his Taylor. Pretty creative...... |
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GenoValet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 1244
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Blancolate wrote: | To Genovalet:
There was a guy selling a horn on Ebay and one of our posters accused the ad as being a fraud. The Ebay seller found out about the accusation and went on to produce a Youtube video of himself playing the horn and also showing a new Monette he had just purchased as the reason he was selling his Taylor. Pretty creative...... |
Ah, I hadn't heard/seen that one. American ingenuity at its finest! |
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