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Schilke B1 for everything....?


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trumpet-matz
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Schilke B1 for everything....? Reply with quote

Hi everybody,
I think about buying a Schilke B1. I have played different Strads, a Callichio 1s2, A Kanstul ZKT 1600 and the Yamaha LA (Bergeron). I am looking for an all-around horn, that I can use for any kind of music, from Brass Quintett to Musical to Big Band. I didn't play Schilkes before, but I've heard so many fantastic reviews from Schilke Players. Do you think the B1 is Schilkes best Allround choice?
Thank you for your posts!
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gbdeamer
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread. I'm also looking for ONE horn, and the Schilke B1 is on the top of my list...
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a B1. I think it is a good all around choice, but the sound and feel, to me, is a bit broader and slightly darker than the B5 (which I used for years). You might check out a B5 and S32 as well, but I think you really cannot go wrong with most any Schilke.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try a Kanstul 1601 before buying. It's the most versatile trumpet I've ever played, and I played a B-1 for years.
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pfeifela
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've owned a B1, B5 and B6. All were great. I think the B1 and B5 are the best of Schilke's lineup for all around applications and either would serve you very well. They do have slightly different feels and sounds, and most everyone that plays them both has a preference. If possible play them both. Then enjoy your choice because you'll have one of the best horns on the planet.
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yodafan
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite all around Bb's are Schilke B6, Kanstul 1601, Bach 37 and Holton 307.
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B_Starry
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the same Schilkes as pfeifela listed ... started with the B6, went to the B1, then the B5, and now the B7. I personally believe the B1 plays/feels/blows larger than any of the other horns you've mentioned (ref original post). They are fantastic instruments. You will not find a better made horn, in my opinion. I'd pick the B5 as the best all-around horn, and those 'copper bell' models sound great!
have fun in your quest
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You owe it to yourself to try a Oakes Celebration. It is extremely versatile with various mpcs and the various tuning crooks. Fantastic Kanstul build quality and Flip's incredible adjustments before the horn goes out.
That being said, I played a Schilke B5L for about 15 yrs. Halfway through that, I got a large bell and tuning crook w/o valve for it. That was a fantastic playing and sounding horn. Very in tune.
I also like Tim's horn . . .
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Celebration Reply with quote

I have to second Crazy Nate. The Celebration is great and extremely versatile. I had a very good B5 a few years ago but I felt restricted by it and went to a Kanstul 1503 to a vintage Getzen Severinson and then to the Celebration, which, for me, is a combination of the best qualities of all the others.
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sunburstbasser
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schilke's S series may be a better fit for legit playing (ie. Bachish).

I tried an X3 out a while back that I really liked too. Didn't get the chance to play it with a group though. On its own it sounded like it would work for any situation.
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jadickson83
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The B1 is a good horn for many settings, mostly jazz I think, but be aware that it does not sound like a Bach 37 at all. I played one for about a year in college and found that it was a very enjoyable horn to play, but did not have the "core" sound that is typically required in a classical setting (basically, the Bach 37 sound).

Order your B1 from Dillons or WWBW so you can play it for a trial period. Then, if you don't like it, you've only lost a few $$ in shipping charges.

May I suggest the Conn Vintage One as another horn to consider as an all-rounder as well?
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Tom LeCompte
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These threads always turn into "I play a XXX and you should too."

I own a B1 - actually, a B1Lb - and I thought it might be valuable to describe when I don't play it. One is in tight quarters with lots of mute changes: it's a pretty delicate instrument, and I feel that is asking for trouble. Another is when I am in a section of Bachs: if we're going for that bold and brassy "Bach sound", why struggle pushing the Schilke in that direction. Might as well bring the Bach. Finally, I don't really like it in the lower parts. I feel the Bach has a little more substance to the sound down there, and that the Schilke sound is a bit more at risk at getting lost.

That's not to say the Schilke doesn't work in these situations. It's just that it wouldn't be my first choice.
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Mark Bradley
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a Schilke fan, but I recently got a B1 in a trade (gold plated no less) and didn't care for it at all. Play before you buy.
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pfeifela
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jadickson83 wrote:

May I suggest the Conn Vintage One as another horn to consider as an all-rounder as well?


The V1's can be found sometimes at very reasonable prices. They get my vote for the most under-rated pro horn.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfeifela wrote:
jadickson83 wrote:

May I suggest the Conn Vintage One as another horn to consider as an all-rounder as well?


The V1's can be found sometimes at very reasonable prices. They get my vote for the most under-rated pro horn.


Great horns, but to my ear they have a very distinct sound - heavy and hard, but strangely clean...I liken it to a ball-peen hammer striking an anvil - projects like mad. I sat second next to one playing in the pit for 42nd Street. Very different from a Schilke, or a Bach for that matter.

To second the best possible advice, try as many horns as you can before you buy. You might suck playing a horn someone else sounds fabulous on, and vice versa.

Edit: I suppose I should add my experience with a B1.

Fabulous horn. It actually made me sound like a decent player. All I gave it was air and the dang thing nearly played itself. Very flexible, no trouble adjusting tone color (at least from my side of the bell), great intonation, incredible response... I case you're wondering, it's on my list of dream horns.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Schilke B1 for everything....? Reply with quote

trumpet-matz wrote:
Hi everybody,
Do you think the B1 is Schilkes best Allround choice?


It could be.

Schilke lists 7 models in their B series, 2 in their X series, and 3 in their S series. I believe each one is available in 3 bell materials: their standard brass bell (except for B5 & B6 models, which are medium weight copper), a very thin copper berrylium bell, and solid silver. Each is available, I believe, with a braced bell or a movable tuning bell. Schilke offers a lot of different options.

Any one of these models could be Schilke's best Allround choice for you. No one can tell you which one will work for you. The best they can tell you is which one worked for them.

Even though the B1 is one of their best sellers, it was too resistant for me, so was the B5: I much preferred the X3. However, I've never played a B2,3,4,6, 7, or X4.

I played an S32 for many years, finding the S22 too open; I never played an S42.

Even if you call Schilke (they're wonderful and very enlightening to talk to), they won't be able to tell you which is their best all-around horn for you. That's why they make a B1,2,3,4,5,6,7, X3,X4,S22,32,42 etc

So the point of my rant is that no one can tell you what you'll find appropriate for your playing needs, only you can. Play as many Schilke models that you can get your hands on.
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puukka
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also prefered the X3 over the B1. I tried four B1s during the last two years, but I didnīt like the playing feel. In the lower and middle range they feel open, going up it felt somehow tight. The X3 feels the same whole range.

A Bach Strad 37 and a B1 would be two different pair of shoes.
The regular weighted horns offer that core in the sound, the lightweights lack.

In my point of view a regular weighted horn would be more of an allrounder, the bright and broader sounding lightweights are great for Jazz and Big Band.

Herbert
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redface
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a B1L in gold plate. It is great. However, it can feel really big and I personally find it hard really getting it to sing above high C. The sound is great, but it never gets really edgy enough for lead stuff. Also, on my last full time gig me and the 1st player swapped horns for a show (his was the Yamaha Bergeron). The Schilke notably gets to a point where it doesn't really get any louder, while the Bergeron would really light up. It is impeccably in tune though.

I'm looking at getting a Bergeron, or 8310Z. I know guys who use the Shew horn in classical/orchestra settings, and they both are of similar design, so I think that could be the horn.
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trumpetquest
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:59 pm    Post subject: Schilke B1 Reply with quote

The B1 gets my vote for one of the most versatile horns available. I have a B1L and aside from its ability to be a tonal chameleon based on slight changes in mouthpieces, it is exceptionally easy to play in-tune. I have owned quite a few instruments including a number that were custom made. As far as intonation and a diverse pallet of colors, the B1 is hard to beat. As a matter of fact, I recently sold much of my horn collection so that I could re-focus on fundamentals (and stop the incessant equipment distraction). Part of this exercise was to pick a middle-of-the-road horn with great playing characteristics (should be easy huh?). I didn't want a dark horn...or a bright one. I wanted one that would let me have both.

Sure, the B1 doesn't quite sound like a Bach, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If more "core" is needed, try it with a couple different mouthpieces. I am currently trying a wedge mouthpiece (1.5B/7) with it...talk about a SLAM DUNK!

The three most important criteria I used to narrow the field were (not necessarily in this order):

1. Efficiency. All too often, I used the size of the air column to dictate sound quality. This led to regularly choosing instruments that simply took more air then I could legitimately control. The new objective was to find a horn with the most moderate bore size that would still allow a sweet, singing tone, but also not hinder endurance or control.

2. Diversity. I typically picked instruments with a specific sound in mind rather then finding one that would be as versatile as possible. This led to relying on specific equipment to realize an objective rather than learning how to control timbre and tone myself. Sure, the old way led to having a nice horn collection, but one that also keep me questioning if I had the "right" horn for the job. My new philosophy: Find the one horn you can call your "friend" (one that can satisfy 80%-90% of your playing), and learn to make it sing in any playing situation.

3. Intonation. Pick a horn that easily locks into pitch. Sure, you want to be able to bend notes, but you shouldn't have to do it to find the center of each note. Many of my custom horns had a WONDERFULLY rich sound quality, but it was a struggle to keep them in tune. If you have to fight it, it's the wrong horn.

Well, that's what led me to the Schilke B1. For others, it will a Bach 37 or possibly a Monette. Find the one that will let you be yourself with the least amount of extra work.
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puukka
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Iīve tested the fixed and tuning bell versions the B1L might really be a different horn.
As example the B6 felt bit tight for me, the B6L was fine.
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